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achrn  
#1 Posted : 11 April 2023 15:28:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

How does anyone manage DSE assessments for 'hotdesking' offices?

Currently we don't have any employee that has more than three desks they use regularly, and our systems require each person to do a DSE assessment for each desk they use.  (Most people have one desk in the office and one desk at home, but we have a couple of people who have two office locations and have a desk in each.)

However, I've just been informed that we are about to start hotdesking in one office with a set of about 40 desks, and it will apparently be a free-for-all scrum as to who gets which desk each day. It seems the powers that be in that office have thought about DSE only in so far as deciding I'll tell them how to do it, and apparently I'm going to tell them this the day after tomorrow(!) 

It seems to me we can set up a system in which we have someone in the office check that each workstation meets the mechanical requirements (e.g. adjustable stable chair, adjustable monitors, etc) but we'll have to educate users that they should run through a mental checklist to make sure they can arrange the desk they end up with each day meets the ergonomic requirements. I guess we could even make it an actual checklist (probably on the intranet, but potentially actually physically at each desk).  However, I'd hope it's an 'aide memoire' rather than a form taht gets completed.  

I'd rather not enforce generating a full actual DSE assessment record by each person each day, but what does anyone else do?  I just about manage to get 95% of people recording one every three years, I don't fancy a system in which people are supposed to do one every day...

Kate  
#2 Posted : 11 April 2023 15:43:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

1) Hot desks are booked in advance to prevent conflict and capacity issues

2) There is a stock of spare footrests etc in a fixed location and it is up to the user to find what they need and adjust everything to their liking; this is not documented (it is only trained)

3) In practice, the nearest footrest etc is usually scavenged and then left at the user's favourite desk (everyone seems to have a favourite desk)

4) Where someone has very specific needs (such as a special chair) they get their own allocated desk which cannot be booked

Only two DSE assessments are expected per person: one for the office and one for home. 

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
achrn on 12/04/2023(UTC), LancBob on 05/05/2023(UTC)
hopeful  
#3 Posted : 12 April 2023 07:42:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hopeful

All our office desks are the same with the exception of being near windows which all have blinds. We provide awareness training and information on how to work comfortably and expect an assessment to be completed for their main location which is usually home. At home we offer desks, chairs and the same equipment as we have in the office, reducing the risks so it should be easy for everyone to be comfortable while working.

Where specialist equipment is required we consider providing a specific desk, depending on their need.

thanks 1 user thanked hopeful for this useful post.
achrn on 12/04/2023(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 12 April 2023 08:25:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Managing hot desking  is like trying to herd kittens: frustrating and pointless. What has happened in all of the organisations I have worked in  that have adopted this approach is the “regulars” ie those people who come in to do their normal  day’s work on a regular basis end up with “their”  desk which is set  up for them and adjusted for them. The only change from having your own desk, full time,  is that you are expected to clear the desk at the end of the day  so in theory someone else can use it the next day but the regulars usually bag the same desk each day. Peripatetic workers will come into the office to touch down but typically do not do a lot intense IT work ( they do that at home) and people if left to their own devices usually sort something out. Life is too short to be creating rotas   and booking systems. Just assume your staff (who of course run the business) are capable of sorting this out amongst themselves. They can’t then the business is probably fatally flawed.

Life does not always need the intervention  of a H&S professional!    

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
achrn on 13/04/2023(UTC)
thunderchild  
#5 Posted : 12 April 2023 10:15:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Managing hot desking  is like trying to herd kittens: frustrating and pointless. What has happened in all of the organisations I have worked in  that have adopted this approach is the “regulars” ie those people who come in to do their normal  day’s work on a regular basis end up with “their”  desk which is set  up for them and adjusted for them. The only change from having your own desk, full time,  is that you are expected to clear the desk at the end of the day  so in theory someone else can use it the next day but the regulars usually bag the same desk each day. Peripatetic workers will come into the office to touch down but typically do not do a lot intense IT work ( they do that at home) and people if left to their own devices usually sort something out. Life is too short to be creating rotas   and booking systems. Just assume your staff (who of course run the business) are capable of sorting this out amongst themselves. They can’t then the business is probably fatally flawed.

Life does not always need the intervention  of a H&S professional!    

What he said. In a past life we tried the booking system and having a DSE assessment in place and neither worked. We only had 2 people that ever had issues with DSE and they were assessed by and external specialist and given fixed desks.

We took the approch that the DSE regs are not fit for purpose and when was the last (if ever) has anyone been prosecuted for breaching them. I've just checked the prosecution site and suprisingly there are no breaches of the DSE regs.

Life is too short.

thanks 1 user thanked thunderchild for this useful post.
achrn on 13/04/2023(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 12 April 2023 11:13:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Wasn’t the Air Traffic Control Service once “done” under the DSE regs because their screens were not fit for purpose. Of course in that case a poor workstation could have very serious consequences.

antbruce001  
#7 Posted : 12 April 2023 11:22:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

There is a very common misunderstanding relating to DSE assessments. Regulation 2 of DSE requires an assessment of the workstation, not an individual assessment for every User. When a person has their own personal workstation, clearly the assessment is in relation to their specific use of that workstation. However, if the workstation is shared, then the assessment should consider all possible users (and operators) of the workstation.

As such, you only need 1 assessment per workstation.

Hope it helps,

Tony.

thanks 2 users thanked antbruce001 for this useful post.
achrn on 13/04/2023(UTC), LancBob on 05/05/2023(UTC)
antbruce001  
#8 Posted : 13 April 2023 07:18:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

Originally Posted by: thunderchild Go to Quoted Post

We took the approch that the DSE regs are not fit for purpose and when was the last (if ever) has anyone been prosecuted for breaching them. I've just checked the prosecution site and suprisingly there are no breaches of the DSE regs.

I think this is a very negative approach to any piece of legislation. Just because you believe the Regs are not fit for purpose (which they may not be, given the changes in technology since they came into force) isn't a justification for non-compliance or choosing to ignore them. Our legal system doesn't work that way.

Also, as you point out the public HSE enforcement databases have no entries relating to DSE enforcement which is not surprising as the HSE doesn't really look at DSE at the sites they enforce. However, the Local Authorities enforce the industries dominated by DSE, for example, offices and call centres. For these workplaces DSE is probably their only real risk (and it is a real risk!). In fact, I would say the LAs, using their EHOs are better DSE enforcers than the HSE. I have first-hand knowledge of examples where robust enforcement of DSE compliance has been taken at call centres. As LAs don't provide a public record of their H&S enforcement (notices or prosecutions) there is no way to know how robustly they have in the past, or are currently enforcing the DSE Regs.

To most of us, DSE is low down on our list of H&S concerns. But we should still aim to comply in a proportional way.

Tony.

thanks 2 users thanked antbruce001 for this useful post.
Kate on 13/04/2023(UTC), WatsonD on 14/04/2023(UTC)
achrn  
#9 Posted : 13 April 2023 07:44:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Thanks all.

I have no intention of being drawn into booking systems (though if local management want to try it I'll leave them to it).  As noted, however, I think the current plan is a free-for-all scrum each day (ie everyone left to their own devices to sort something out).

It was a useful reminder to highlight that the workstation assessment is an assessment of the workstation, not of the user, but in practice I think it's not quite that straightforward - we don't have a single height of desk that works for every user in the business, for example.  I think we would end up with quite a lot of special cases with designated desks, and quite a few who would spend at least ten minutes every morning and evening setting up their special mouse, keyboard, headset, tablet, etc.

I think we will obtain a stock of more footrests and we'll also upgrade the monitor arms so they more easily adjust (currently they are adjustable, but with some faff - unscrewing things and lifting the weight of them).  Most of our people are doing intensive IT stuff basically all teh time, so we need workstation set up right.

Has anyone got involved in trying to assess the mental health impacts of hot desking?  I'm convinced we have a higher proportion of people that exhibit autistic-spectrum-like behaviour than I see in the world at large.  That is, we only have two specifically diagnosed people (that I'm aware of), but I see both a lot of unusually rigid routines and pockets of more stilted than usual social interaction around the place.  It would not surprise me if we have an relatively high proportion of people who would be unusually discomforted (stressed) by hot desking, but have no idea if that's quantifiable.

A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 13 April 2023 08:03:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

“I think this is a very negative approach to any piece of legislation. Just because you believe the Regs are not fit for purpose (which they may not be, given the changes in technology since they came into force) isn't a justification for non-compliance or choosing to ignore them. Our legal system doesn't work that way.”

I am sorry to say this but that is exactly how the legal system works. There are loads of laws which are introduced as a form of virtue signalling which nobody enforces eg it is illegal to smoke in a car with a child. Has anybody every heard of that law being enforced.

As far as DSE goes the HSE  only get interested in the most egregious cases and to bring a civil claim against an employer you would have to demonstrate that you were suffering some loss or harm due to you not having the correct keyboard or an appropriate chair etc.  No this is a largely  redundant  over prescriptive  piece of legislation.

 

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 13 April 2023 08:42:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post
It would not surprise me if we have an relatively high proportion of people who would be unusually discomforted (stressed) by hot desking, but have no idea if that's quantifiable.

It is/was quantifiable - the hot desking sounds like a management diktat (not sure of the driver but there will be one) and as such a responsible employer would have engaged with those to be affected to identify any potential impacts (including mental health) so as to control and minimise risk. There was/is nothing to stop opinions being canvassed after all Risk Assessment is a part of every business decision.

As you highlighted that 10 minutes getting comfortable at a new desk each morning - how long before someone decides working hours should commence when the computer is active rather than the employee entered the building? Similarly will the last 10 minutes of "pack-up" time be paid?

Awkward point where hourly rates are close to legal minimums - asking for 20 "unpaid" minutes a day may push calculated rates below the minimum.

Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 13 April 2023 08:42:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post
It would not surprise me if we have an relatively high proportion of people who would be unusually discomforted (stressed) by hot desking, but have no idea if that's quantifiable.

It is/was quantifiable - the hot desking sounds like a management diktat (not sure of the driver but there will be one) and as such a responsible employer would have engaged with those to be affected to identify any potential impacts (including mental health) so as to control and minimise risk. There was/is nothing to stop opinions being canvassed after all Risk Assessment is a part of every business decision.

As you highlighted that 10 minutes getting comfortable at a new desk each morning - how long before someone decides working hours should commence when the computer is active rather than the employee entered the building? Similarly will the last 10 minutes of "pack-up" time be paid?

Awkward point where hourly rates are close to legal minimums - asking for 20 "unpaid" minutes a day may push calculated rates below the minimum.

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