Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
buzzz  
#1 Posted : 20 April 2023 11:22:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
buzzz

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on a scaffold set up and whether there are aspects missing, whether you can errect a scaffold on a sloped roof, checks following extreme weather etc.,  as this isn't my area of expertise

Can anyone help please?

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 20 April 2023 11:37:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi buzzz

That's a couple of relatively short QQ which could generate pages of answer.

In short, you can erect (and strike, ie remove) a scaffold just about anywhere including on some sloping roofs, but you would want a designer on board to work out what needs to be where.

So, on the sloping roof you would start by working out the load paths - in simple terms what is supporting the temporary structure and whether it is suitable for the purpose.

That's way beyond my expertise, even if I know what sort of things to consider.

If this scaffold is being put up in connection with "construction work" then you should have some CDM duty holders with the appropriate "skills, knowledge and experience" to guide you in the right direction.

buzzz  
#3 Posted : 20 April 2023 12:01:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
buzzz

Thanks Peter.

The help i'm looking for relates to the picture below, where two boards came off from the top elevation of a scaffold following (forecasted) high winds (Storm Noa, met office yellow warning) last week which have damaged property. You can see the missing boards.

The insurance company are claiming that the scaffold was subject to extreme winds/ weather, which they cannot be held liable for and can only be held liable for an act of negligence or breach of duty by the company they insure.

In order to prove negligence and a breach of duty i'm looking to understand:

1. Should there be foot plates at the end of the standards on the sloped roof to add more stability to the scaffold?

2. Should there be toe boards on the property side of the scaffold boards?

3. Should there be stop end boards at either end of the scaffold boards? If so, i assume this would exclude where the gate is?

4. Should scaffold boards be tied down when strong winds (such as storm Noa) are predicted?

5. What checks should be done during high winds, e.g. visual inspection, tying down of boards, further risk assessment?

6. With the scaffold being so close to a public highway (a road on the other side of the wall), should other precautions be taken?

Anything else i've missed or is worth exploring?

Picture below ....

​​​​​​​

Edited by user 20 April 2023 13:30:19(UTC)  | Reason: additional text

Holliday42333  
#4 Posted : 20 April 2023 13:34:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Holliday42333

Hi Buzz,

I should think the answer to your questions should really fall onto what was the design for the scaffold.

Was it a standard design to TG20 or if outside TG20, had a specific design been completed?

I haven't got a current copy of TG20 and cant remember if sloping roofs are included. 

If either TG20 or specific design then appropriate wind loading should have been taken into account.  The scaffold should then have been inspected against the appropriate TG20 standard design or the specific design.

The bit where my knowledge gets sketch is who then should be expected to monitor wind conditions to ensure the scaffold remains adequate for the conditions.  From your post it would seem the insurers are stating its not their client.

The starting point for liability is therefore the design, then what wind loading was calculated in the design, then was it built to the design and inspected regularly to ensure it was maintained to the design.  If the wind conditions were within the design parameters then the Insurers need to sharpen their pencils.  If the wind conditions were so extreeme that they were outside the design parameters I'm not sure who would be responsible to be honest.

The specific questions you have asked are unlikely to be in the competence base of most H&S practitioners as they are scaffold design questions.  You would be better contacting the National Access & Scaffolding Confederation (NASC) who produce TG20.

peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 20 April 2023 18:22:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi buzzz

I also don't have a copy of TG20 which is really the starting point.

However, it is "common knowledge" that insurers find all sorts of excused not to pay out, but I don't know how much of that "common knowledge" is actually a myth that could be easily blown up when the insured choose to select cheaper insurance options that come complete with lots of caveats.

So, part of the issue is to look at the conditions on the insurance policy!

But depending on the level of damage it might be more cost effective for the insured to take the financial hit and consider whether to go for a more robust policy going forward.

As is the norm on these Forums there is a problem with your photo - I can't open it and this may be the case with for other readers.

But to try and answer your specific QQ:

1. Should there be foot plates at the end of the standards on the sloped roof to add more stability to the scaffold?

YES.

If this is a scaffold e.g. erected around a gable (whether or not an extension of something built up from the ground) the vertical standards should be supported on metal (or similar) base plates (typically 150mm square) with the base plates in turn supported on sole boards (usually scaffold boards) to spread the load - suppose this is a slated roof the load bearing down via a 150 x 150 base plate will split the slates underneath. All this assumes that the roof structure is capable of supporting the load exerted on it! Which takes us back to a design.

2. Should there be toe boards on the property side of the scaffold boards?

As I can't see how this scaffold has been constructed difficult to answer. However if there are gaps on the inner face of a scaffold built up from the ground through which materials could fall and injure someone below e.g. at an entrance, then YES.

3. Should there be stop end boards at either end of the scaffold boards? If so, i assume this would exclude where the gate is?

In simple terms there should be at least top rail, mid rail and toe board at every edge from which people and materials could fall and injure someone below EXCEPT where this is not reasonably practicable.

4. Should scaffold boards be tied down when strong winds (such as storm Noa) are predicted?

5. What checks should be done during high winds, e.g. visual inspection, tying down of boards, further risk assessment?

Taking these two together, this is the equivalent of "Man at Work" signs on the roads except higher up.

So there is a standard which explains the various ways of preventing the temporary road sign from being overturned or displaced, which most usually is does by placing 11kg sand bags on the frames for the signs.

So, the standard dictates how much weight is needed depending on location. Less in places where it is generally not so windy, more in places where the winds are OFTEN higher.

Same principle applies to your scaffold. It should be designed with weather in mind and what that means will vary according to the Season, but storms in April in the UK are far from uncommon and Noa wasn't particularly exceptional.

So, the insurer's argument seems to be possibly along the lines of this being down to an "Act of God" but Storm Noa was predicted well in advance so there could and should have been a plan to deal with higher wind conditions than may have been initially envisaged in the DESIGN that should have been done - "TEMPORARY WORKS" with a TW Designer, TW Coordinator and TW Supervisor (and I am guessing that none of these were in place!)

Hence the plan includes e.g.

(a) cross one's fingers and hope it's OK - common but not generally recommended

(b) take down part or all of the scaffold

(c) put in additional precautions, which might include tying down boards, doing extra inspections etc etc.

6. With the scaffold being so close to a public highway (a road on the other side of the wall), should other precautions be taken?

That's down to risk assessment. Guidance in HSG151.

buzzz  
#6 Posted : 21 April 2023 06:28:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
buzzz

Hi Peter,

This is really helpful, thank you. For some reason I can't upload a picture, the button isn't working for me. It would be great if you can see the picture, so i'll message you to see if I can email it if you wouldn't mind?

peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 21 April 2023 13:30:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Well, buzzz

That photo was.........."interesting"......!

Since I don't know who might be reading this I will not go into detail as to why it was interesting.

P

SteveL  
#8 Posted : 27 April 2023 15:09:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

Scaffold company insurance should cover any damages. Scaffolding on or over roof should be designed and constructed as per design. Any scafffold being used as work area should have toe boards fixed. 

Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.