Rank: Forum user
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Hello Learned Friends, I have recently come across something not really encountered before and wanted to canvass peoples opinion and experience on said issue. I have personally always worked on the HSG65 principles with regards to management of safety in a business Ie One person at the top ie Managing Director or CEO with certain people being responsible for certain areas of the business responsibility and accountability being key. I then recently cam across a business classed on companies house as a "registered society" under the wing of the "Financial Conduct Authority" and the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014 Basically meaning 65 people all with equal share and equal responsibility in the business. Obviously from a health and safety policy and organisational gram point of view its very Alien not to have one overall person with responsibility and control of health and safety ie the purse strings so with that in mind and what the HSE would advise I have a couple of questions if I may. Has anyone come across this and what is their experience when apportioning internal safey ownership ? Would you agree they would still need to have 1 person nominated with the necessary training etc ? If they wanted more than 1 person lets say 3 people with equal control do you see an issue with that ? All feedback and advice greatly appreciated. Thanks In Advance Alan
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Rank: Super forum user
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This is not that unusual. The legal duties that exist under Health and Safety at Work Act are aimed mainly art the employer, the organisation not individuals. Section 37 of course places a duty on “any director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity” and Armour vs Skeen makes it clear that this depends on the persons responsibilities not their title. HSG 65 and other guidance such as INDG 343 suggest that it would be a good idea for businesses to appoint a director/board level person to oversee H&S issues but that is not a legal requirement and most business don’t bother. So, H&S issues at board level will be hammered out between the board members, with each pitching for their area: finance wanting to save money; operations will want to streamline process etc. If the business is owned by a group of partners or a co-op or some other format it makes no difference. The liability rests with the company and the personal responsibility depends on what people are doing not their title. Doesn’t every H&S policy document start with the line “health and safety is everybody’s responsibility”?
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2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanl You for the reply its helpful and yes to clarify it is a "Co-Operative" so from what you say a board to manage safety can be nominated in this scenario as long as responsibilities are covered.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I do have a contrary anecdote about this. I once had a job interview with a legal firm, and their feedback was that I gave the wrong answer to the question of how different I thought it would be to work for such a business. I'd said it wouldn't be that different to what I'd done before. They said that because of the way the legal firm was structured as a partnership, it did make a difference. Sadly, as the interview was unsuccessful, I can't describe what would be different in practice.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Kate The reason that they didn’t tell what the actual difference was, was because that would have been legal advice and solicitors never give you free legal advice. OK in a partnership (but not a limited liabillity partnership) the partners are personally responsible for any money owed including fines, rather than it being limited to the organisation.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: Kate I do have a contrary anecdote about this. I once had a job interview with a legal firm, and their feedback was that I gave the wrong answer to the question of how different I thought it would be to work for such a business. I'd said it wouldn't be that different to what I'd done before. They said that because of the way the legal firm was structured as a partnership, it did make a difference. Sadly, as the interview was unsuccessful, I can't describe what would be different in practice.
Once prosecuted a solicitors about 25 years ago after an accident in their store room, the irony was they specialised in accident compensation. Because of the complex structure we were told we would have to name all the partners on the summons, however one of the senior partners who was about to retire decided to accept the charges on behalf of the law firm as it can be difficult practising with a criminal conviction. We were told if it was one of the big London firms we could have had dozens of partners to name on the summons.
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1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
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