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RKC7  
#1 Posted : 26 April 2023 12:59:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
RKC7

Hi All,

Our MD has asked for general HSE compliance on site, where does it state and why do we require competent third parties to undertake services such as, FLT servicing and inspection, 6 monthly examination of lifting equipment, PAT testing, Compressor servicing etc.

We have a workforce of qualified technicians and engineers but out source these requirements to third parties to undertake.

To my understanding a third party provides a greater level of assurance with regards to specfic competency in these areas, and also allows them to issue certification. But I am being asked with where does it state this in applicable legislation that we have to outsource i.e. LOLER / PUWER. from a quick recap it states the general "trained and competent" wording. and why can we not design our own training courses to certify ourselves to undertake to meet HSE legislation, but this surely brings up conflict of interest?
Please advise on how others have dealt with this kind of question? it would be much appreciated

thanks, Ricky

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 26 April 2023 14:11:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

PAT testing is readily brought in house - nice simple test kit with built in printer and any "competent" electrician can spend their working day trudging from office to office - it is outsourced as whilst they are conducting PAT testing they are not available for other employed duties.

Compressors and lifting equipment is more about insurance (most 3rd parties have evolved from the insurance companies in-house test engineers such as Lloyds, DNV etc. to be independent service providers). Your MD would need a long conversation with your insurance provider to convince them you were bringing such risk under company control.

FLT's and similar is more about the change in a lot of businesses from outright equipment purchase to maintained rental agreements - here it is the hirers equipment and again a hard conversation for you MD to convince the renter your service would meet all their requirements.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kate on 26/04/2023(UTC), Kate on 26/04/2023(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 26 April 2023 14:11:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

PAT testing is readily brought in house - nice simple test kit with built in printer and any "competent" electrician can spend their working day trudging from office to office - it is outsourced as whilst they are conducting PAT testing they are not available for other employed duties.

Compressors and lifting equipment is more about insurance (most 3rd parties have evolved from the insurance companies in-house test engineers such as Lloyds, DNV etc. to be independent service providers). Your MD would need a long conversation with your insurance provider to convince them you were bringing such risk under company control.

FLT's and similar is more about the change in a lot of businesses from outright equipment purchase to maintained rental agreements - here it is the hirers equipment and again a hard conversation for you MD to convince the renter your service would meet all their requirements.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kate on 26/04/2023(UTC), Kate on 26/04/2023(UTC)
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 26 April 2023 14:26:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Ricky

You have a mix of things on the To Do list some of which are almost set in stone as regards what to do and how ofren, most of which were "consolidated" into current legislation such as LOLER from what was in place before.

So, as example, the current statutory examination requirements for eg. lifting equipment for people and other loads, and steam and air pressure vessels are almost word for word as written in the Factories Act 1961 and other legislation that has been replaced.

For instance under the previous legislation the lifting equpement used for loads other than people had to be "thoroughly examined" at least once a year. If carrying people, then at least every 6 months. Now the same numbers are there in LOLER but with an option for a "written scheme of examination" in which you could justify the case for more or less frequent examinations. [VERY RARELY actually done as most simply continue with the tried and tested frequencies!]

Traditionally many of these examinations were done by engineers employed by Insurance Companies as much to keep the insurance companies happy to continue covering their clients as anything other reason - and your insurers may well continue to want to keep this themselves as condition of coverage.

Then there are all the other things where you have to have a system in place for maintenance, testing etc etc but generally without any clear recommendations as to what to do and when. Up to you to assess the risk and decide what is reasonably practicable and thence decide what to do, who to do it.

Absolutely no reason why some of these tasks could not be done in house if you have people competent to do them. 

Sometimes it might be a case of balancing the cost of upskilling in house people and ensuring sufficient in house resource against the cost of outsourcing.

Suggest you make a table of what all the tasks are, work out which are "statutory" and which are the result of the risk asessments made by your organisation and then you are in a position to make the arguments for and against doing these in house or outsourcing.

A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 26 April 2023 15:02:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Because  I have just been looking at the PSSR I can mention that the written scheme of examination needs to be  written by and carried out by a “competent person”. There is a great deal of guidance in the ACoP   about the “competent person” role  but it makes it clear that the expectation is that the competent person can act in an independent manner and that even if the testing is done in house it would be good if the scheme of examination was done to the appropriate BS standard by an UKAS accredited organisation.

Some of the other things mentioned have similar requirements.   

John D C  
#6 Posted : 26 April 2023 17:09:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John D C

When I worked for a local authority the guys that looked after the maintenance of our fleet of vehicles also carried out the statutory inspections on the minibus taillifts. This was given the OK by an HSE specialist inspector provided that the person who maintained and serviced a vehicle did not carry out the statutory inspection on the same vehicle. This fulfilled the requirement for independence even though the the Inspector said he would prefer it to be done by a third party.
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