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Stubbsey  
#1 Posted : 28 February 2024 14:11:31(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stubbsey

Hi, I'm wondering if someone can help me with a few points regarding hand arm vibration readings. Our company uses the Havsense ring style monitor that when used in combination with the software converts the accelerometer readings to HSE points. This week we've had a 45001 auditor within the company and HAVS got brought up. She was happy that we are taking readings but not happy that some of our readings are not a full 8hr shift (or 10-12 if working overtime). My question is can 2 fold. Can the readings be weighted to an 8hr average and if so how is this done in the practical sense? I've had a hunt round the internet but cant seem to get the relevant equations to suit my needs. The reader complies to ISO 8041 so i believe we can use this for our records. In the few months we've used the devices i've only seen 3 readings over 100 and alot are between 30 and 50 points from a user base of about 30 people. Thanks in advance.

Gerry Knowles  
#2 Posted : 28 February 2024 15:22:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gerry Knowles

It may be an advantage to you to have someone trained in the use of a HAVs measuring device and how to understand the device and the data it provides.  There is a company called INVC who offer an excellent course. 

Please note I am not advertising them I have no connection with the company other than I have sent a number of employees on the course.  

Edited by user 28 February 2024 15:22:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Gerry Knowles for this useful post.
peter gotch on 28/02/2024(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 28 February 2024 15:48:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I don’t do HAVS bit the lovely Jo who sits next to me does these regularly. She does not measure someone over 8 hours. In a nutshell what she does is take readings for the various pieces of equipment and converts them into a score.  Individuals then filling in weekly cards noting how many minutes they use each piece of equipment for. Jo then can work out what their daily exposure is across all of the pieces of equipment they use. This is my description of what she does, and it is probably only partially correct. The main take away though is you do not need to measure a whole days( 8 hr)  exposure.

thanks 3 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 28/02/2024(UTC), Kate on 28/02/2024(UTC), Pirellipete on 05/04/2024(UTC)
Connor35037  
#4 Posted : 28 February 2024 16:50:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Connor35037

I do a 3 minute measurement using a Castle Vexo HAV meter, this gives me points per hour and calculates an 8hr exposure.

The HSE Calculator (Microsoft Excel worksheet available on their website) will also give an 8hr exposure reading if you input the measurement result and the duration of the measurement.

peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 28 February 2024 18:07:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Stubbsey

If we take the parallel of noise, as exactly the same principles apply but noise came into greater focus earlier than hand arm vibration.....

For a while when I worked in HSE, I had the grand title of "Nominated Noise Inspector" for the Area.

What this meant was that for a year I had a much more expensive integrating sound level pressure meter than the standard issue meter that every front line Inspector had.

....and I used it a LOT!

But, I never stood in an area for 8 hours.

What I did was take lots of readings in various areas of e.g. factories and asked questions about how long people would be working in those places each day and week.

....and calculated the 8 hour exposure levels on the basis of both the measurements over short durations and the information about how typical that exposure was.

If things were on the balance, then it was time to get the duty holder to invest in personal exposure monitoring. So you put the measuring device on the worker for a full shift and that told the story of how much exposure they were getting at different times of the day AND the overall total over 8 hours (or worked out to 8 hours if they worked more or less than 8 hours).

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 29 February 2024 08:07:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

jendy REPORTED

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
chris42 on 29/02/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 29/02/2024(UTC), chris42 on 29/02/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 29/02/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 29 February 2024 08:07:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

jendy REPORTED

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chris42 on 29/02/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 29/02/2024(UTC), chris42 on 29/02/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 29/02/2024(UTC)
peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 29 February 2024 13:06:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Thanks Rounduit

Where do these bots dream up their User Names?!?!

Stubbsey  
#9 Posted : 29 February 2024 15:12:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stubbsey

Thanks for the input. So would i be right in saying for example that i can take one of the employees readings of 45HSE points over 7.5hrs, Divide points by hours giving a single hour average figure, then multiply by 8 to get a full shift reading of 48 HSE points. Because the employees potentialy swap between differing tools during the readings we as a company thought these style of readers would be the best style to wear and compile our data. 

Elfin_Safety  
#10 Posted : 01 March 2024 14:58:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Elfin_Safety

Originally Posted by: Stubbsey Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the input. So would i be right in saying for example that i can take one of the employees readings of 45HSE points over 7.5hrs, Divide points by hours giving a single hour average figure, then multiply by 8 to get a full shift reading of 48 HSE points. Because the employees potentialy swap between differing tools during the readings we as a company thought these style of readers would be the best style to wear and compile our data. 

Yes, as long as you're always inputting and calculating with HSE exposure points. If at any point you have to work with vibration values in m/s² there are more steps with squares and roots - the calculation is in Schedule 1 of The Control of Vibration at Work Regulations (or just use the HSE's calculator spreadsheet!)

(This is of course assuming that for the 'missing' half hour they are still carrying out tasks that are suitably represented by measurements during the monitoring period)

Edited by user 01 March 2024 15:03:39(UTC)  | Reason: Added last sentence

CarlWest  
#11 Posted : 13 March 2024 13:07:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
CarlWest

Stubbsey - I'd also check the ring style monitor that is mounted on the hand. How does this comply with ISO5349 for measuring vibration on tool. The standard talks about fixing the traducers firmly attached to the vibration surface, as does L140, and I'm not 100% sure the equipment you've got works to this, albeit I'm happy to be told it does.

thanks 1 user thanked CarlWest for this useful post.
HSSnail on 18/03/2024(UTC)
HSSnail  
#12 Posted : 18 March 2024 09:39:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Saw a ring style monitor at a safety event a few years ago - the salesman was saying how much better they were than the "tool timer" out there. Not sure how you calibrate them I break out in a rash if subjected to too much snake oil.

Stubbsey  
#13 Posted : 18 March 2024 10:58:28(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stubbsey

These are the readers that we use.

https://havsco.co.uk/dosimeters/

It says on their website that they are compliant. They were purchased before i came into the office some 5 years ago but where never used in anger until came across the devices.

The devices are calibrated annually by the company that supplied them.

HSSnail  
#14 Posted : 18 March 2024 13:39:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: Stubbsey Go to Quoted Post

These are the readers that we use.

https://havsco.co.uk/dosimeters/

It says on their website that they are compliant. They were purchased before i came into the office some 5 years ago but where never used in anger until came across the devices.

The devices are calibrated annually by the company that supplied them.

Not the same 1 i saw, much bulkier - how do the team find using them? looks like they would get in the way of doing lots of jobs safely. Do they take much pressure on the fingers to hold?

Stubbsey  
#15 Posted : 18 March 2024 14:19:59(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stubbsey

As a general rule most employees are quite happy to wear them. Our operations are welding, grinding and fettling of steel fabrications. You don't really have to think about holding onto it because of the added thickness of gloves worn and that the reader is up against the "split" inbetween the two fingers it just stays put. Plus your also gripping the tool at the same time against the post of the meter so vibrations are being transmitted directly into it. 

The hardest think about using the meter in all honestly, is getting the meter back off the employees at the end of the shift.

Kate  
#16 Posted : 18 March 2024 18:59:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

But compliant with what?

Stubbsey  
#17 Posted : 19 March 2024 08:07:29(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stubbsey

Its states ISO 5349 which is Measurement and evaluation of human exposure to hand-transmitted vibration. 

Roundtuit  
#18 Posted : 19 March 2024 12:00:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

BS EN ISO 5349-1:2001 General requirements

BS EN ISO 5349-2:2001+A1:2015 Practical guidance for measurement at the workplace

On the web site they post a CE mark next to ISO 8041:2015 again a two part standard

Part 1: General purpose vibration meters (ISO 8041-1:2017)

Part 2: Personal vibration exposure meters (ISO 8041-2:2021)

On the 2016 data sheet however the CE mark is against measuring equipment standards

Roundtuit  
#19 Posted : 19 March 2024 12:00:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

BS EN ISO 5349-1:2001 General requirements

BS EN ISO 5349-2:2001+A1:2015 Practical guidance for measurement at the workplace

On the web site they post a CE mark next to ISO 8041:2015 again a two part standard

Part 1: General purpose vibration meters (ISO 8041-1:2017)

Part 2: Personal vibration exposure meters (ISO 8041-2:2021)

On the 2016 data sheet however the CE mark is against measuring equipment standards

MrBrightside  
#20 Posted : 19 March 2024 13:02:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

As we pretty much do the same jobs (building and talking apart things) with the tools, I used the manufacturing data, HSE spreadsheet and worked out how long it takes to do each job and what tools are used. Measuring is a pain when they could pick up one tool, use for a few minutes and then swap to another.

Working it out by activity was so much easier  and didn't rely on anyone to fill out anything.

I didn't think the HSE was a fan of on tool or ring/wrist measuring devices.

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