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Caldeira33438  
#1 Posted : 10 June 2024 12:03:20(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Caldeira33438

Dear Colleagues As you know - The FSO applies to all workplaces and the common parts of buildings containing 2 or more domestic premises. It places legal duties on anyone in control of these premises (the Responsible Person - usually the owner or landlord) to undertake and record a fire risk assessment and put in place and maintain general fire precautions. My question is, that where you are an occupant in a landlord's building, but are not responsible for the fire safety arrangements e.g. you undertake administrative tasks, using electrical equipment e.g. Computers, with no high risk activities, are you required to undertake a fire risk assessment? Your only ask may be to be a fire warden for the area. Thank you in advance
Kate  
#2 Posted : 10 June 2024 14:45:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Do you mean the situation where a business (or other organisation) is renting an office area from a building owner?

Or something else?

What is the reason behind saying so definitively "not responsible for the fire safety arrangements"?  Has such responsibility been claimed by someone else?

Caldeira33438  
#3 Posted : 10 June 2024 14:54:27(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Caldeira33438

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

Do you mean the situation where a business (or other organisation) is renting an office area from a building owner?

Or something else?

What is the reason behind saying so definitively "not responsible for the fire safety arrangements"?  Has such responsibility been claimed by someone else?

Hi Kate Yes, I do mean where a business (or other organisation) is renting an office area. What I mean by "not responsible" you are not responsible for the undertaking of the fire PPMs.
A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 10 June 2024 15:20:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The relevant legal bit is Article 3 of the FSO. The “responsible person” is according to Article 3 “in relation to a workplace, the employer, if the workplace is to any extent under his control;”. I have underlined any extent because I feel that means just about any employer as they all have some control of the workplace. The subsequent risk assessment should reflect this: “The responsible person must make a suitable and sufficient assessment of the risks to which relevant persons are exposed for the purpose of identifying the general fire precautions he needs to take to comply with the requirements and prohibitions imposed on him by or under this Order.” It does not say all general fire precautions, just those that are relevant to them and their work force.

Kate  
#5 Posted : 10 June 2024 15:52:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

In that case yes, as an employer you will need your own fire risk assessment for your occupancy of the office area that you are renting.

That it is very low risk and that someone else maintains the fire alarms are not exemptions from doing it - they are just things that simplify it and that you will record in it.

You can probably do this yourself quite easily using the bits of the guidance here that are relevant to your office: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-risk-assessment-offices-and-shops

Examples of things you will include in it are how you inspect your electrical equipment and remove it if faulty, how you keep your escape routes clear, and how your staff know what to do if the alarm goes off.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 12/06/2024(UTC)
Messey  
#6 Posted : 10 June 2024 19:06:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

In addition to the posts above I would like to point out that in a multi occupied workplace, the Responsible Person of each demise should not just carry out a FRA for their area, it must include any parts of the building that their employees may reasonably be able to access. That definately includes escape routes (corridors and staircases), but also tea points/kitchens, internal or covered car parks and toilets etc 

Of course, pretty much all of that would overlap onto the Landlord's common parts responsibilities, but Article 22 makes it a requirement for the Landlord and tenants to cooperate and coordinate - especially in relations to the findings of the FRA

thanks 1 user thanked Messey for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 12/06/2024(UTC)
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 11 June 2024 09:18:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Hi Messey, great post.  Would you expect all the RPs to share their FRAs with each other and if they do would they expect to see differences among all the completed reports.  I know the most recent FRA could see more recent changes so should the others amend their FRA and inform their employees.

Edited by user 11 June 2024 09:19:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

bjmillward  
#8 Posted : 11 June 2024 11:09:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bjmillward

Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Go to Quoted Post

Hi Messey, great post.  Would you expect all the RPs to share their FRAs with each other and if they do would they expect to see differences among all the completed reports.  I know the most recent FRA could see more recent changes so should the others amend their FRA and inform their employees.

I wouldn't expect the RPs to share with eachother but they should share them with the lead party i.e. the building owner / management company.  They have overall control and so should be aware of the findings and the assumptions. What is also relevant in some cases (depending on size) are the Phase 3 changes which the Building Safety Act 2022 brought in.  The legislation changes the risk assessment requirement for all employers to document their findings (no longer just significant findings).  This means that there is no more exemption for employers with four or fewer employees having to document their FRA.

Messey  
#9 Posted : 11 June 2024 22:53:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Go to Quoted Post

Hi Messey, great post.  Would you expect all the RPs to share their FRAs with each other and if they do would they expect to see differences among all the completed reports.  I know the most recent FRA could see more recent changes so should the others amend their FRA and inform their employees.

No, I would not suggest any RP shares their entire FRA (that would have cost them £100s or even £1000s) and could easily be plagurised, copied and used by neighbours. It may also contain information of a commercially sensitive nature. I would expect relevant findings to be available   Article 22 has a list of what should be shared and its all common sense . From contact details to hazards and other matters that might effect neighbours in a multi occ premises A full list is available here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1541/article/22

thanks 3 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
Kate on 12/06/2024(UTC), firesafety101 on 12/06/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 12/06/2024(UTC)
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