Rank: Forum user
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In developing our lone worker policy and procedures, our team of sales reps across the country have a lone worker app. This app has with it an escalation contact procedure should a time-out alarm go off and the user doesnt respond. The app call centre rings the user first, and if they dont respond, those named in the escalation list. This could be the user's Manager, colleagues and / or family members. The objective is to try and establish the whereabouts of the user to ensure that they are safe However, as sales reps often have extended days, weekend and evening work and overnight stops in hotels, it would be interesting to clarify where and employer's duty of care begins and ends (and therefore a legal responsibilty under H&S legislation). So, for example, visiting a customer is work. But is travel to the hotel afterwards (or even travel home)? And what about the stay at the hotel? Is there a duty of care while eating or socialising (eg having a meal), asleep (and clearly not working). Then what about travel to a customer the following morning. what I am trying to establish is at what point does an app user not have to use the app, and therefore those on the escalation contact list will not be needed to be contacts. Should contacts really have to be available 24 hours a day? Online searches about this have not been fruitful, and my fear is that the only time this would be clarified is in court should anything ever happen (hopefully not). If anyone has thoughts I would appreciate feedback
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Rank: Super forum user
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Unfortunately you have made the rod for your own back by brining in a wholly unecessary APP in to workplace procedures. Sheer numbers sees thousands of people every day who would fall under what your company has decided to define as "lone working" - delivery drivers, postmen, lollipop persons all manage quite well without having an APP. Yes travel is a risk, road use is a risk, being away from home overnight is a risk would I want an APP monitoring me and reporting back to my line manager at frequent intervals? No.
Would my line manager want disturbing because I had not responded due to being in the hotel pool? No. Nothing I currently do necessitates being monitored - I travel around sites, I stay in hotels I am never alone with unfamiliar machinery or at sites with water or significant fall hazards. Working in a higher risk industry with automatic plant we had a lone worker alarm - its purpose was to cover those periods when there was the potential of significant danger e.g. working at the side of water treatment and no one present to respond - the car drive to and from the site was considered ordinary travel. Have to ask how was this system briefed to the management in line with your current concern i.e. were they told they would be expected to respond 24/7/365?
Do they regularly update the monitoring station of holidays or illness and do their deputies know when they are "on call"? Personally I work to live - @ 40 hours are my employers the other 128 hours are mine - a sentiment I am lucky to share with my line manager.
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![thanks](/Themes/iosh2/heart_small.png) 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Unfortunately you have made the rod for your own back by brining in a wholly unecessary APP in to workplace procedures. Sheer numbers sees thousands of people every day who would fall under what your company has decided to define as "lone working" - delivery drivers, postmen, lollipop persons all manage quite well without having an APP. Yes travel is a risk, road use is a risk, being away from home overnight is a risk would I want an APP monitoring me and reporting back to my line manager at frequent intervals? No.
Would my line manager want disturbing because I had not responded due to being in the hotel pool? No. Nothing I currently do necessitates being monitored - I travel around sites, I stay in hotels I am never alone with unfamiliar machinery or at sites with water or significant fall hazards. Working in a higher risk industry with automatic plant we had a lone worker alarm - its purpose was to cover those periods when there was the potential of significant danger e.g. working at the side of water treatment and no one present to respond - the car drive to and from the site was considered ordinary travel. Have to ask how was this system briefed to the management in line with your current concern i.e. were they told they would be expected to respond 24/7/365?
Do they regularly update the monitoring station of holidays or illness and do their deputies know when they are "on call"? Personally I work to live - @ 40 hours are my employers the other 128 hours are mine - a sentiment I am lucky to share with my line manager.
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![thanks](/Themes/iosh2/heart_small.png) 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi David I think you are over thinking this! You say what should happen if “a time-out alarm goes off and the user doesn’t respond.”? The users must understand that when they are working the tracking app must be kept on and when they have finished work then must notify the system that they are no longer at work. You don’t need to track them when they are back in the hotel. But it is the user’s responsibility to use the system correctly and they should appreciate that there will be consequences if they fail to hit the acknowledge button on their app when required and as a result someone is dragged out of bed to deal with a non-existent emergency. Edited by user 17 June 2024 15:22:06(UTC)
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![thanks](/Themes/iosh2/heart_small.png) 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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Originally Posted by: Davidfilce ![Go to Quoted Post Go to Quoted Post](/Themes/iosh2/icon_latest_reply.gif) In developing our lone worker policy and procedures, our team of sales reps across the country have a lone worker app.
This app has with it an escalation contact procedure should a time-out alarm go off and the user doesnt respond. The app call centre rings the user first, and if they dont respond, those named in the escalation list. This could be the user's Manager, colleagues and / or family members.
The objective is to try and establish the whereabouts of the user to ensure that they are safe
However, as sales reps often have extended days, weekend and evening work and overnight stops in hotels, it would be interesting to clarify where and employer's duty of care begins and ends (and therefore a legal responsibilty under H&S legislation). So, for example, visiting a customer is work. But is travel to the hotel afterwards (or even travel home)? And what about the stay at the hotel? Is there a duty of care while eating or socialising (eg having a meal), asleep (and clearly not working). Then what about travel to a customer the following morning. what I am trying to establish is at what point does an app user not have to use the app, and therefore those on the escalation contact list will not be needed to be contacts. Should contacts really have to be available 24 hours a day? Online searches about this have not been fruitful, and my fear is that the only time this would be clarified is in court should anything ever happen (hopefully not). If anyone has thoughts I would appreciate feedback
It is reasonable for you to know that they arrived at a hotel safely and to know the itinerary of their planned customer visits.
Regarding the hotel - when they check-in you can consider the employee to have established a 'home-away-from-home', and I would not get them to report their status throughout their stay in the hotel.
For overseas visits to high security risk countries this issue becomes much more tricky.
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![thanks](/Themes/iosh2/heart_small.png) 1 user thanked neil88 for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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David- I think you have fallen into the trap of not understanding how these systems work/ or perhaps I should say not analysing how they will work for you. I have used similar systems for a couple of employees now and its very important that you start with a very clear procedure/ policy (call it anything you want) on how it will be used, and an understanding of the risk assessment for lone working. Fist of all be very clear what counts as work time – I travelled an hour into my work base this morning and will do the same on my way home tonight – clearly not work activity its my own choice. However I have colleagues that don’t have a fixed base and could set off to different sites every morning – as their base is home then yes their journey is a work activity for me. Then what work are they doing – we have staff who carry out very low risk office based work at home – I would not expect them to be tracked all the time, managers usually give them a quick call as part of work day. Some people would argue there is a risk of a medical emergency but for me that’s not part of the work activity in someone’s own home. Then I have colleagues working in lots of locations, often with power tools, or going into confrontational situations. I had a manager tell me a while ago that he had not spoken to one of his staff members for a week and would have had no idea if this lady had been injured on the Monday morning! (She lived alone). His staff now use the app to “check in” every 2 hours. If a colleague has to stay in a hotel, then I agree with others – as soon as they check in they have checked out of work. But I also think its reasonable that their arrival at the hotel is logged in some way – ring a colleague, use an app etc. Do you need a 24 hour call out procedure? Not unless you have staff working 24 hours them possibly. As with all these apps/lone worker procedure its important to remember that they are part of your procedures, not a total answer and you can never abdicated your duty towards lone workers totally to someone else or the worker themselves. Sorry a bit of a longwinded answer.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Now I have a problem that there is an assumption being made about hotel check-in and in particular about when it occurs.
In the ideal world we would like to presume it is around the time we would normally roll in from the office.
There will always be the potential for delays due to weather, accidents or combination or even the actual travel plans that can see much later (or missed) arrival at the hotel.
If you are running a system it needs the flexibility to adapt to enforced change otherwise it should be thrown in the bin.
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![thanks](/Themes/iosh2/heart_small.png) 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Now I have a problem that there is an assumption being made about hotel check-in and in particular about when it occurs.
In the ideal world we would like to presume it is around the time we would normally roll in from the office.
There will always be the potential for delays due to weather, accidents or combination or even the actual travel plans that can see much later (or missed) arrival at the hotel.
If you are running a system it needs the flexibility to adapt to enforced change otherwise it should be thrown in the bin.
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![thanks](/Themes/iosh2/heart_small.png) 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: Roundtuit ![Go to Quoted Post Go to Quoted Post](/Themes/iosh2/icon_latest_reply.gif) If you are running a system it needs the flexibility to adapt to enforced change otherwise it should be thrown in the bin.
Totally agree which is why i say you need to understand your hazards, and your lone worker RA- if i was sending someone on a conference for example where they were staying in the hotel, other than a brief "Hi did you get there alright?" text i would not be checking on my colleague for the rest of the time. All lone working is hazardous, but life is hazardous, its only where the work activity increases the hazard significantly i would be putting in controls.
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