Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Chris M  
#1 Posted : 19 August 2024 05:10:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris M

Hello All

I'm currently putting together training materials for DSEAR

Does anyone know where I can get training video's showing how combustible flour dust can be in a manufacturing working environment?

A few years ago, I attended a training session and was shown a video of flour dust that had settled on pipework, this ignited similar to that of gun powder. I'm trying to find that video.

I've looked on you tube but unable to find any suitable video's that show flour dust igniting in manufacturing 

If anyone has any suggestions I would be most grateful 

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 19 August 2024 10:56:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Chris

The dangers of dust explosions in places processing large volumes of flour have been known for such a long time that such places go bang very rarely as the precautions are usually long established.

PLUS nobody is usually standing around taking video footage when the primary explosion shakes up the dust on surfaces and initiates the devastating secondary dust explosion.

So usually what is available shows the aftermath.

I would be tempted to just google for ANY video on dust explosions and go for one covering one covering a natural carbon based material - as example there is one on the Imperial Sugar explosion in the US.

Edited by user 19 August 2024 10:57:43(UTC)  | Reason: Just a Minutish repetition

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Chris M on 19/08/2024(UTC)
Chris M  
#3 Posted : 19 August 2024 11:27:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris M

Hi Peter

Thank you for your answer.

I'm aware that there will be little footage of someone taking a video during flour being ignited, it was more a general enquiry to locate a video I've seen previously 

chris42  
#4 Posted : 19 August 2024 12:31:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Not quite what you were after but there was a dust explosion back in 2015. Search wood flour mill explosion, might provide some helpful info.

HSSnail  
#5 Posted : 19 August 2024 12:44:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

firesafety101  
#6 Posted : 19 August 2024 17:13:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

"Making a fireball from flour" is a youtube video.  It takes the filmaker a long time (like watching paint dry) to get his fireball but it does show the flour catching fire.

Moreso shows how difficult to actually burn flour. 

James Robinson  
#7 Posted : 20 August 2024 14:01:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
James Robinson

Try looking on internet search engine (videos) for;

"grain dust explosions and how to prevent them"

Should come up with various videos including "Deadly Dust II"...there are others in the series.

Obviously not an endorsement - other materials are there for you to consider.

regards

Connor35037  
#8 Posted : 22 August 2024 15:40:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Connor35037

At school there was a demonstration of the "exploding custard tin" where the dust explosion blew the metal lid off.

Smaller scale I know but it shows the principle.

Plenty of videos on Youtube, including a QI one with Stephen Fry.

Messey  
#9 Posted : 22 August 2024 20:19:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

When an operational firefighter, I attended a fire at a large flour packing factory involving a large electrical control panel. It was perhaps 2m wide and 3m tall and full of relays, transformers and contactors and it was well alight

This was around midnight with no staff on site. We only carried a small BCF extinguisher which was totally insufficient. So as normal, we searched around for some CO2 but struggled to find any across the entire site.



As a second panel became involved in fire and smoke filled to space- and with no way to isolate to power supply to enable us to use water, we really had to act quickly. So we were forced into the perhaps illegal move of breaking in to neighbouring  businesses and 'borrowing' their CO2 extinguishers.



It turned out management were so anxious about dust explosions from clumsy application of high pressure CO2 media, that they removed all CO2 extinguishers - not very helpful at all



So what happens now? Do businesses operation flour mills and similar dust prone environments keep the site free of CO2 extingusihers? It seems a bit excessive and an ill conceived strategy to me 

firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 22 August 2024 23:11:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Inert fire supression systems are available designed to Totally Flood compartments automatically.  As they are designed to totally flood there should be no risk of explosion.

PDarlow  
#11 Posted : 23 August 2024 08:16:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
PDarlow

So what happens now? Do businesses operation flour mills and similar dust prone environments keep the site free of CO2 extingusihers?

Hi Messy,

In answer to your question, due to being an animal feed producer, we create grain dusts and have 7 Co2 extinguishers inside our mill, among other types of course.

I can't see why anyone would remove extinguishers - surely the fact they were there in the first place would have been due to risk assessment and guidance from specialists.

Messey  
#12 Posted : 24 August 2024 13:50:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

Originally Posted by: PDarlow Go to Quoted Post

So what happens now? Do businesses operation flour mills and similar dust prone environments keep the site free of CO2 extingusihers?

Hi Messy,

In answer to your question, due to being an animal feed producer, we create grain dusts and have 7 Co2 extinguishers inside our mill, among other types of course.

I can't see why anyone would remove extinguishers - surely the fact they were there in the first place would have been due to risk assessment and guidance from specialists.

Even worse, this factory was subject (at the time) to a Fire Certificate under the Fire Precautions Act 71 so should have consulted the fire service before removing the extinguishers.  

It was a stupid decision. OK there are risks associated with the use of CO2 in a dusty environment, but training is the key to reducing risk, and not deleting one risk and substituting it with another!!!!!

John Elder  
#13 Posted : 28 August 2024 11:56:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

Most people use the imperial sugar incident for training purposes the results causing an explosion are the same

Self and Hasty  
#14 Posted : 30 August 2024 07:47:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Self and Hasty

It's likely it was the powdered sugar explosion killing 14 at Imperial Sugar in USA in 2008. 

This short video has some good footage and good animations of how the build up of sugar occured on the conveyors, I remember watching this one on a fire course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg7mLSG-Yws 

Users browsing this topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.