Rank: New forum user 
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We recently had one of drivers making a delivery to a customer and whilst our driver was parked on a loading dock and in the back of the trailer moving pallets a third party van was manouvering in the customer's yard and they shunted the front of our parked vehicle causing the driver to fall over and injur their knee. The driver has been off for 40 days now. we reported as a RIDDOR as we should but im wondering whether we should be racking up all these lost days for something that wasnt our fault? i.e. there is nothing practically we could have done differntly to avoid the accident. just wondering if anyone has a policy on this and if it is based on any HSE or industry guidance. thanks.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Young There is no HSE or authoritative industry guidance that tells you to keep a record of how much lost time you have associated with accidents. If you operate in geographies or for clients for work to US OSHA Regs, then one of the metrics to be kept is often total lost time. However, that doesn't translate to being an appropriate indicator of how often your organisation might have done something wrong, let alone how much lost time that might have caused. Might be that you have e.g. clients who assess your performance on such criteria but that would suggest that such clients have a poor understanding of how to analyse H&S statistical information. Relatively common, but there isn't that much you can do about it AND comply with both legislative requirements i.e. RIDDOR and whatever information others may demand from you. Remember that RIDDOR is largely a set of Regulations which enable HSE to collect statistical data that gives limited indication of the scale of accidents at work in Great Britain. Making a RIDDOR report has nothing whatsoever to do with admitting fault, let alone assigning that fault to your organisation or some third party.
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 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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The time was lost due to an injury at work and this is not an admission of fault (although it may feel like it).
You might be thinking about going down the road of only counting lost time when it does seem that some blame may lie within your company.
That is a bad road.
The worst thing about this road is that you will no longer be able to do objective and impartial investigations of incidents because there will be so much pressure to assign blame elsewhere and avoid it in certain quarters.
So, keep it objective and say that you count all time lost, with no arguments. Then you can say that counting it isn't an admission of fault and you won't have to have stupid arguments about blame every single time (where it might be a lot less clear than this case).
Another bad thing about this road is that counting some other lost time does then seem to imply fault, which might then be used against you in ways you hadn't intended.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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A record of lost time will help to explain the expenditure on overtime or hiring a relief driver. Accurate records can also ensure the potential for future miss-understandings can be avoided.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Kate on 21/11/2024(UTC), Kate on 21/11/2024(UTC)
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Rank: Super forum user
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A record of lost time will help to explain the expenditure on overtime or hiring a relief driver. Accurate records can also ensure the potential for future miss-understandings can be avoided.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Kate on 21/11/2024(UTC), Kate on 21/11/2024(UTC)
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Rank: Super forum user
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For the record I absolutely agree with Peter, Kate and Roundtuit and we steadfastly record any lost time for anyone working under our direct control (incl sub-contractors) for all the reasons given. However as I work for a contractor, I fully understand why the question would be asked. PQQ processes, procurement teams and supply chain schemes will generally request lost time data and absolutely use this to judge the safety performance of a company regardless of the facts of the lost time. You could end up in the situation where your bid is unsuccessful due to lost time agreed in the investigatin to have been caused by the actual client you are bidding to work for! [Obviously this it totally hypothetical and has never actually happened; wink]
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1 user thanked Holliday42333 for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Another "totally hypothetical" scenario. Company with global operations has pretty graph showing a clear downward trend in Lost Time Injury Frequency Rates. An explosion happens at one of company's Client's sites. Kills and injures a lot of people mostly employed by said company. Cause of explosion definitely NOT down to said company but perhaps company should have had its workforce further from the hazard. Company produces two versions of pretty graph. With and without the impact of explosion. One graph has a huge spike, the other shows continued downward trend. Pick graph according to who is asking for statistical information. Holliday's approach gets a tick from me. Transparency INCLUDING as regards supply chain. Many Contractors choose to avoid consideration of what is happening in their supply chain who often perform more of the higher risk activities. Problem for Holliday's employer (and others applying similar approach) is that Clients may not recognise that they could be comparing apples with pears.
Edited by user 21 November 2024 11:04:49(UTC)
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