Posted By JAI Totally agree with you we have a large construction site, where my lads only wear flip flops, shorts and hanky for a hat as it is far to hot for them to wear the normal gear Your men should have questioned the decision of the safety officer allowing him to explain his reasons for the rash decision his time would have been spent looking at the bigger risk from heat exposure

Posted By Mark Bywater JAI, I think you've got to do a risk assessment and decide whether the greater risk comes from dropping something on your head or your foot, or from getting heat stroke etc. I can just hear the wife and family of some poor guy on your site now saying "Why did he die from a brick falling on his head?" and your response being "Well to be honest luv it was too hot to wear a hard hat!" The HSE would be all over you like a rash...and you know it. Personally though, I think you're winding us up here...flip flops as opposed to proper safety boots? Surely not! Mark

Posted By Is Kismet They were fitting kitchens.

Posted By Is Kismet Could someone come up with a scenario where wearing shorts whilst fitting kitchen units is a significant risk. I'd prefer we stuck to the issue/scenario of wearing shorts whilst fitting kitchen units please, if that is possible. Thank you.

Posted By Peter Moran There should be some company policy that exists regarding the wearing of shorts taking into account the risks involved. Is there a policy stating the clothing that should be worn during working time in addition to PPE? On most sites in the construction industry shorts are not allowed especially road surfacing for obvious reasons....however this is often relaxed this for certain delivery/collection drivers not actually alighting from their vehicles at any time during working especially in hot weather. The first action would be to reduce the temperature for the guys working which would obviate the desire on their part to minimise their clothing. This rarely happens of course as it often involves spending money heaven forbid!! I see postmen wearing shorts in hot weather so presumably a risk assessment has been done cover the risk of injury from householder's dogs etc so why not for a moderate task in a kitchen?

Posted By John Webster Had the fitters been female and wearing skirts, would he have made the same decision?

Posted By Philby' Is Kismet, I dont think any of the posts diagreeing with you were being intentionally antagonistic, its just your original posting didn't make it clear as to the extent of the activities. I think most posts were reasonable in assuming that kitchen fitting can and does involve electrical, plumbing (water & gas), chemical, and sharps hazards, and that, although the cupboard carcas builders were not involved in that, there could have been others in the vacinity that were. I'm sorry you feel agreived, but you asked and we gave.... Philby'

Posted By jackdaw We had some workmen working in our offices. Amongst other things the work included some electrical work and plumbing - and yes they were wearing shorts and t-shirts. I can't recall whether their risk assessment mentioned wearing shorts or not. I watched them for a short time, thought about hazards and risks, and thought "looks okay to me", and left them to it. Am I too laid back about these things? Seems to me that some people must have thousands of written risk assessments, and site rules covering every conceivable eventuality. As we don't appear to have any more accidents than other similar companies, we are either just lucky or many risk assessments are done simply as a paperwork exercise. Getting back to the original thread, it does seem over enthusiastic to me to send them off site for wearing shorts. Maybe we should be a bit more pragmatic about situations that arise.

Posted By jackdaw I don't think the issue was about removing PPE, it was about having uncovered legs by wearing shorts. When I said that I think maybe people should be more pragmatic, the sort of thing I meant was - workmen are fitting kitchen units; its very hot; realistically nobody will pay for air con units; workmen wear shorts to keep a bit cooler - is this a problem? If yes, why is it? Even if site rules say shorts can't be worn why can't this particular job be looked at and an exception made? Surely it is part of a safety professionals job to be able to assess situations and make appropriate decisions - simply sticking to rules rigidly doesn't seem appropriate to me. Or again, am I too laid back about these things?

Posted By Cathy Ricketts Poor guys - let them wear their shorts - my other half works a gas fitter/plumber both him and my son wear work shorts - they are very smart and worn with polo shirts look very professional. They have sourced some knee pads that they can wear with them to protect their knees, they have safety boots/trainers where required - the risk would be higher if they were too hot in the environment they were working in and failed to give the job their 100% attention - they get lots of complimentary remarks about their legs too (which they thoroughly enjoy)!!!!

Posted By Denver Chalmers It is as usual down to suitable and sufficient risk assessment remember that the defined meaning relates to risks NOT present in every day life. Even if we asume the guys involved were only screwing together and fitting a basic kitchen it is forseeable that some manual handling is involved in positioning worktops and units etc therefore leg covering or overalls although strictly speaking not PPE may reduce the severity of injury caused by scrapes drops scuffs etc. Good manual handling technique often requires getting close to the load and making contact with the items being handled. I have investigated manual handling injuries caused by a combination of factors including someone holding a load at arms legth because they had changed into their glad rags and literally minutes before they were to leave a package was delivered that had to be put on a shelf, failure to keep the load close to the body caused a back injury. I can understand why in some circumstances it may be acceptable to take a pragmatic view of certain situations and whilst I am all for portreying the profession in a good light I can see circumstances where shorts are not appropriate workwear for kitchen fitting. Our role in the workplace is to prevent injury and often that involves saving people from themselves. Look at the whole scenario from the NHS guys perspective he may have been involved in investigating accidents where the severity of injury could have been lessened by a simple cloth covering and he was giving these guys the benefit of someone elses harsh lesson.

Posted By Ron Young Spot on Gary, what a bunch of anoraks we are! I really despair about those PR negatives and our ability to shoot ourselves in the foot by being so bloody minded and holier than thou all the time. Chill out

Posted By Ali Was it his/her personal preference or were they acting on company policy ? If there is no policy on this, you may be able to appeal against their decision. Ali Moderate Safety Adviser

Posted By Antony McManus Judging by a lot of the previous responses it sounds like a lot of people are missing the point in a big way. It sounds like the safety officer who said this was the type who said something and then wouldn't admit that he/she was wrong. Lets be honest..,.we've all come across them and it is these people who get the industry a bad name. But, lets look at the big picture here....the guy was wearing shorts.... hardly high risk or life threatening is it... Is it just me or are people taking things too far.... answers on a postcard to the usual address... ony Mc