Posted By Mike Walker A recent thread complained that they had far too many over qualified Trainers applying for a junior role that was advertised. Not sure where they all are, as I have posts for senior CITB/IOSH Trainers, see thread below, and have not had any enquiries at all yet! So if you are a highly qualified (MIOSH/CMIOSH minimum) and accredited to train CITB Courses as a minimum, drop me a line and you could be joining one of the most dynamic and rapidly growing and respected consultancies in the UK. email: careers@4seerisk.com NO AGENCIES PLEASE Check out our web site www.4seerisk.com

Posted By Philip McAleenan Mike it is possible that in detailing your requirements you have been unnecessarily restrictive in respect of the qualifications that you require. Many trainers have achieved their qualifications through sources other than CITB/IOSH and are as equally if not more effective as trainers (depending on the nature and type of course and their competence). Likewise, you have confused membership of IOSH with qualification. Granted, the level of membership that you state does require the applicant to provide evidence of particular qualifications, but MIOSH/CMIOSH is not itself a qualification. In all likelihood there are many highly qualified and competent safety professionals and trainers who have chosen not to be a member of IOSH, or to have followed CITB/IOSH training programs who are well able to do what you require. Unnecessarily restrictive requirements attached to job advertisements are not good recruitment practice and, if shown to unfairly discriminate against other potential applicants who are otherwise meritorious, may put you in contravention of employment legislation. If you want the best, be specific about what you need and exclude all extraneous stipulations that will close the door to a wide pool of potential staff/associate. Philip

Posted By Dave Wilson Philip! WHAT!!!Industrial Tribunual because you want someone who is CMIOSH! get out of here mate!! This is a plea for someone who has a certain level of competence and CMIOSH would give that, whether they are any good a presenting now thats another issue.

Posted By Dave Wilson To get CITB Accreditation just go to their www and download the application only one page and takes 5 minutes.

Posted By Mike Walker Thanks for all the responses. Good to see that it has created a bit of debate. Our position is very clear on the issues that are raised. At 4See we believe that Health and Safety Professionals are generally undervalued by industry as a whole. We have set up (and grown rapidly in the last 2 years) a consultancy with a difference! We have a minimum entry requirement of MIOSH (now CMIOSH or GradOSH)for all consultants that join us. We know that there are hundreds of SHE Professionals out there that do not have this membership, but are very well qualified and highly experienced and there are many consultancies and employers that will snap them up! But in our markets (and our clients views are everything) IOSH membership is the recognised "Gold Standard". It is also true that just having full IOSH membership does not mean that the individual is a highly talented and professional consultant and many that apply wouldn't make it onto the books of 4See. Finally, some of the best consultants prefer to work as associates, but at 4See we only employ full time (unless specifically requested otherwise by clients), this again is in response to our clients requests. What we are creating is proving hugely popular with major clients, as we offer a consistant and highly professional/capable service to them. I accept that this is not the only way of doing this and that we are not the only consultancy that are of a high quality. BUT there are lots that are not and we guarantee this quality to our clients. On another point raised, we don't allow anyone "just to train" as we expect all our (again highly talented) trainers to be consultants too (hence the need for MIOSH etc.) I cannot accept that anything we are doing is discriminating in any way. We believe Health Safety and Environment deservesthe highest level of recognition in industry - as many of the practitioners are highly professional. We really believe that this market will go through a huge "recognition" process over the next 2-3 years and SHE Professionals (all of you) will be given the respect and credit that your skills deserve. This belief drives our desire to have only the best working for 4See, so that we are are the forefront of this market. Yes it does restrict those who can apply and will make recruitment more difficult for us. BUT we have grown from 1 to 12 in just 2 years and will grow to at least 30 in the next 2. There are more than enough people in the market to enable us to grow and we think the hard work is worth it. Thanks again for all the comments.

Posted By Dave Wilson Sorry what I was saying is how simple the proces is to get CITB registered. Good marketing ploy as if a firm is CITB Registered then they can claim back from the CITB in a grant the money which you have charged them for that training to deliver a course recognised by the CITB. So charge £120 per delegate for the day and the client can claim back I think approx £65 or even more in some cases from them in a grant. You get paid going rate, clent gets cheap training = Happy days!

Posted By Paul Bellis Mike There is some crossed wires I think and I aopogise if my email read if I was being critical of 4 see The point I was poorly attempting to make was. Here I am I am a qualified trainer - I have left my details with you previously but it would appear that you have now opportunities that may suit? I have tried to reply to the forum by e-mail direct - to the email posted on the webpage but it was rejected by the server I did recieve your previous mail and thank you for your consideration at that time. There was no slight to 4 see intended offence intended - Paul