Posted By emma jane I've worked in safety for 3 and half years now, starting in my current position as H&S officer with a large company almost a year ago. The reason why I'm in despair is because the management in the company I work in have very little knowledge about health & safety and cut major corners. I feel like I either sit quietly and agree with everything they say or speak my mind and get shown the door! Ive locked horns with them a few times now but to no avail and am under no illusion about my popularity at this time. This isn't what I got into safety for. Thinking of cutting my losses and leaving. Has anybody else every experienced anything like this? I spend all day everyday dealing with claims paperwork and gathering information for solicitors. Again this isn't what I got into safety for. I need a more pro active role. Would be interested in your thoughts.

Posted By SNS Emma, Try not to take it personnaly, its organisational. Where 'they' are cutting corners are there full risk assessments in place - signed off by the director responsible. Quantifying the effect of event potential costs by producing a print of HSE prosecutions / prohibition / enforcement notices tends to focus their minds. Along with the financial analysis of accident / near miss trends. Point out (you probably have already tried to) to the board the risk that they are carrying. Mostly though dont let the ba****** grind you down. Meanwhile, update your CV and check what else is available :)

Posted By DPK Emma Dont take it too personally, i had a very similar experience 2 years ago with a company which still operated 20 years in the past. I had battle after battle with department managers, you know the stuff "we have always done it that way without any problems". Any how i changed my approach with some and confronted others, i arranged basic training and made the presentations as graphic as possible (shock tactics if you like. Gradually over a period of 18 months some began to change the way they thought and started asking questions, it also helped i sent some very strongly worded emails to the MD informing him of the problems the company faced. He added weight to my cause but admitedly not a lot. The one that realy helped was costing the accidents and claims the company were paying for, OH MY GOD, money,money, money. Ah, now i have the attention of the senior management and they want too know what an earth has been going on,and how do we save the money being spent/wasted? So i went about making improvements as i could show a reduction in operating costs, with the co-operation of some managers, some actually left as they couldnt cope with the increased H&S of the company. Yep that is right, they didnt think they needed a safer workplace. I will not pretend all is rosey there now but i honestly beleive the company has progressed 5 years in 2. I can assure you once you discover what makes them tick (which will always be money) your job becomes much easier. Good luck. If you would like to chat then feel free to give me a call, i am no expert but i found the way with this lot and it may work for you. DPK

Posted By MP Grayson It happens. I could tell a few horror stories about my last employer and some of the things that they (a major UK owned company which has gone global) wanted or ordered me to do, but why, what good will it do. I put in three years hard graft. It had its ups and downs but I feel that I came out the better for it, sure I could have blown the whistle and thrown a teddy tantrum then gone to the HSE or Environment Agency, but at the end of the day all that it would have done is brought about my own destruction. The lady that I replaced fell at that hurdle as did a very, very good friend of mine at one of our sister sites. Trouble is, it’s just not worth it and you can only do so much. I take pride in the fact that even when a member of the Senior Management Team was publically stating that he was out to take me down, I never took that big step back and let anyone hang themselves. You say that you’ve locked horns, yep, been there, got the T-shirt. The profession that we are in is never going to be the most popular, it’s not right, but it is the way it is. Just do your best and cover your own six. Learn to pre-empt the red mist and wait 24 hours before hitting the sent button on those e-mails. Print this off and stick it on your wall. http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm Good luck and crack on.

Posted By Pete48 Emma, please do not despair too long. There are as many approaches to H&S in the workplace as there are people. There is no such thing as a perfect company whether you work in H&S, engineering, HR, accountancy etc. It may be that your style of working doesn't suit your colleagues or your company needs. That is not a failure, it is a fact of life. If there is a mismatch then move on but beware the grass is never as green as it seems. Do you have an idea from them of where they want to be with regard to H&S or have you just decided that they need to be somewhere other than where they are? If they decide to be less than perfect and take a risk or two, can you ever be comfortable with that on a personal level? The harsh reality is that the line managers and/or executives have to decide what they want, not you. You talk of cutting corners but not whether this is breaking the law, with or without knowledge; or merely a question of interpretation and risk tolerances. You can threaten people all you want with the legal, moral and economic justifications but they will just smile sagely and get on with making a profit or sorting the very real problem in front of them. A claim that might happen at some unspecified time in the future means little to a Production Manager faced with a shutdown. What he or she wants is a way to avoid stopping or to minimise downtime. If you can help to find a way to do that safely then you are friend: if not you are a hindrance that either has to be tolerated or can be ignored. Which response you get is dependant on the culture of the company. I would recommend that you try to explore with them some honest assessments of how they want to manage H&S on a scale that might have something like: --Am I bothered? --we cant let H&S cost us money or time. --safety person does safety, up to them to sort with little funding or support. --Comply with the minimum required by law, grudgingly because we wont get business unless we do. --See legal compliance as a minimum standard but hope to better that and want to use H&S as part of improvement planning --Everyone does H&S and we want to fully integrate H&S into management decisions. If you can achieve that at least you will have a view on which to base your jusdgement about staying in the company. It may also highlight why you are feeling so desperate and give you a way forward either with the company or in another place. You could start with your direct line boss on the basis that things are not going right for you, never mind the company. Walking away without some really personal soul searching about the real reasons for leaving is rarely successfull.

Posted By JimE Hi Emma, Firstly.....nil illigitimo carberundum gal :) Secondly make sure you document everything and get as many replies in writing or e-mails and don't trust the given word ! Sounds a tad paranoid and cynical but as previously stated..cover your six. OK..rant out of the way. I have been where you are and worn the T-shirt (actually...I'm still pretty much there and the shirt is faded now)but I believe we can only influence and cause change made by others in more powerful positions. To achieve this we plod on and take small bites and don't try to eat the whole elephant :) Don't take it personally iether (or is that either?).It ain't you gal..it's what you stand for, it's the job. Dot your T's and cross your I's and keep yourself self. JimE

Posted By Philip Evans I once upset the managing director of an engineering company when I asked him if he wore hearing protection when he went into the high noise level areas of his factory! Show your MD or Finance Director that they will save money by reducing accidents, lowering claims and reducing insurance premiums. Some insurance companies have liability surveyors who will offer advice to management about this.

Posted By Max Ellis Silly question what are your six. Have noted it in two previous replies here.

Posted By Max Ellis Should have known that being ex military. Stupid me.

Posted By John H101 Hi Emma Jane, As a number of contributors have said this is not a unusual problem ~ unfortunately in some organisations the safety person is looked upon as part of the problem rather then the solution. Thankfully this notion is decreasing however as companies wise up to their responsibility I have have encountered this issue on a micro level a number of times; what I have found helped is to outline my thoughts in a PowerPoint about what the gaps are and hopefully try to agree some actions to reduce the gaps. Perhaps give it one more chance and make an appointment with your manager or MD to outline where you believe we need to make some drastic improvements and why leaving emotions completely out of it. While clearly I don't know of any specific issue that cause you to despair it might help if you indicated some of the significant gaps as you see them & highlight briefly the laws that relate to it; info about some published incidents that relate to it (especially if you can lay your hands on relevant pictures where the workplace concerned is of a similar industry to your own. Examples of HSE prosceutions and court cases. Remind them of your own facilities incident stats, some of the main at risk behaviours you observe around the site that could lead to incidents and your solutions to help fix them. IF they are professional something will hopefully ring a bell. Request their support to improve the safety culture, make the link between a good safety culture and improved operational performance. If you ask for their support at the end it will perhaps force their. Many simple actions supported by senior management can go a long way to releiving the despair. Happy to assist in anayway. Bye John