Posted By Bernie Rogers I asked the same question of the HSE a few years ago; the reply I received, "There is no upper limit, I am sat in an office at the moment where the temperature is 90 degrees F." Clearly this is to be viewed from the assessment of the environment and why the temperatures are becoming uncomfortable. It may be poor ventillation, poor insulation, overcrowding of personnel or the electronic equipment. Since there is no legal limit to the temperature perhaps, rather than trying to decide on a figure look at how it can be controlled. It is possible that frequent breaks in cooler rooms and suitable supplies of drinking facilities will reduce the effect of the heat on the personnel.

Posted By John Bennett Ron, As previously mentioned there is no upper limit however, by thinking laterally you may be able to convince the powers at be that something needs to be done. You state office temperatures so I am assuming that you work in the average office environment. Conduct a risk assessment taking in to the account the affects of high temperatures on individual employees who may be susceptible to the extremes of heat due to their condition i.e. pregnant, old, medical condition etc. This has previously proved successful in my experience. Good luck (you will need it) Regards, J

Posted By Ken Taylor I sounds like you may have done what you can reasonably do. Have you considered shading from direct sunlight and reducing relative humidity?

Posted By Jim Walker As soon as we have some warm weather in this country, you can guarantee two things: the yobs start to smash up some town and this chat line discusses this problem. There have been many "reasonable" remarks made already about what should happen in a company with sensible employers. What happens were there is a perfecly good Air con but the directors have banned it's use as it consumes power. This is the situation I face and yes I've tried all reasonable persuasion methods too. Incidentally it is not just a question of temperatures - humidity levels play a big part in comfort. If we have a minimum temp (left over from the factories act?) why can't we have a upper limit or at least less ambigious guidance from HSE.

Posted By Ron Young Good idea, it would remove most ambiguity, except for whose thermometer was the accurate one...

Posted By Sheila Dover I receive many complaints in the workplace about it being too hot. We are in an old building with windows that open, however it only brings in fumes from cars, so they are not used. Some offices have window air conditioners which help some - but when you have 30 or 40 people in an officer area the temperature rises. I think an indoor office temperature is comfortable at 75 degrees as long as there is air movement.

Posted By Jim Walker Further my earlier posting and people's subsequent comments. I assume all are aware of "Thermal Comfort in the Workplace (HSG 194)" this is worth reading if only to appreciate that some one has produced a ten page Guidance document and said nothing. It little more than regurgitates parts of MHSWR. David Brede's idea is an excellent one, how about it IOSH? Here is a chance to be proactive. A decent guidance document that quoted relevant parts of other sources rather than just naming them might help us all. It could even stretch to giving some general parameters for temperature, humidity and ventilation. Given time these might be so widely used, they became a consensus view. I've had a bit of a Surf and interestingly most countries seem to have the same ambiguous statements as our own. I even found USA and Aussie chat sites with a similar thread to this one. Eire Health and Safety Authority recommend an upper temp of 27°C WHO recommends a maximum of 24°C Here are a few interesting sites www.vl28.dial.pipex.com/hazard40.htm http://www.osh.dol.govt....catalogue/pdf/temp-s.pdf http://www.gov.mb.ca/lab...n/hotenvir/hotenvir.html I found a really nice Western Australia site with all of the H&S documents on it, it would appear they have an ACOP that is almost the same as MHSWR, so if anyone wishes to emigrate I guess your knowledge is transferable. I quote: Regulation 3.15 states An employer must ensure (a) that work practices are arranged so that employees are protected from extremes of heat and cold; and (b) if the workplace is in a building or structure that, as far as practicable, heating and cooling are provided to enable employees to work in a comfortable environment Juliet, I've seen these buildings with a couple of bags of white stone chippings thrown on the roof to reflect the sun. Might this help?

Posted By Richard I understood that thermal comfort would be considered during the routine review of the Welfare Regs., but at a recent seminar I asked an HSE inspector, who was a speaker, about this very point, and she was pretty non-committal. I think we must rely on the TUC to apply pressure - I understand the CBI is not altogether in favour of a statutory upper limit. I wonder why!! The temperature in my office this week has exceeded 96 deg F! Richard

Posted By Jay Joshi First and foremost, it is vital to consider all the factors that contribute to thermal comfort, but temperature, humidity and air movement are the main ones. It would have been more practical had the HSE included in the Thermal Comfort guidance – HS(G)194 a “hierarchy of acceptable zones”, supplementing these with additional guidance of what to do--then the statement in paragraph 10 i.e.,”An acceptable zone of thermal comfort for most people in the UK lies roughly between 13°C (56°F) and 30°C (86°F), with acceptable temperatures for more strenuous work activities concentrated towards the bottom end of the range, and more sedentary activities towards the higher end.” !!!! Such a hierarchy of measures would have perhaps addressed what I can only perceive were the CBI’s concerns—perhaps mistakenly fearing employee’s demands of the control measures when weather conditions are truly extreme! . I wonder what research and fact is this so-called “acceptable zone of thermal comfort” based on. Whereas the HSC is bound to consult on the ACoPS, the HSE does not have to do so with its general guidance. Perhaps occupational safety organisations such as IOSH and others can influence it by requesting the HSE to have input into the drafts prior to publication. The HSE does occasionally consult interested parties, but it will be more effective there is input at the multitude of HSE advisory committees’ stage. The thermal comfort guidance has got some good “control measures”, but as in most cases, our health and safety system has not evolved to that level of effective self regulation as the CBI perceives it can effectively undertake--where those who control and take financial decisions heed the guidance or even the advice of their own Safety Advisors. All they want to know is “ is it a legal requirement to ?” It is a shame that almost 30 years after Robens, there is a reluctance on the part of those who take financial resource decisions to accept that where regulations are non-prescriptive, IT IS THE ACoPS and GUIDANCE that supplements practical implementation of the regulations. Surely, it is in effect a failure on part of all stakeholders that we have this situation. Obviously, there will always be those who are exceptions.

Posted By Ed Carter May I join in this thread,already explored by my esteemed colleagues. What has been said regarding no upper limits etc. is true. There is however a, I believe, still current amendment order; the Fuel & Electricity(Heating)(Control)(Amendment) Order 1980. which states that energy cannot be used to create a temperature greater than 19C. Therefore, the powers that be must recognise the effects of too high a Temp. Other guidance says that the ideal office Temp. is between 19 - 21C degrees C, and that higher than 21/22C the humidity starts to be affected detrimentally, under 30% brings lethargy, itchy eyes, etc etc. Perhaps you could point out to your bosses that higher temps will have a detrimemntal effect on their staff's performance. (Incidently, surely it may contravene the relevant bit of HASWA 1974 (Sect2). There's my tuppence worth, hope it adds to the debate. Ed

Posted By Simon Wilkins Just a few thoughts on simple practical measures that can help - sorry if they seem very obvious but they might help. 1) Encourage natural ventilation through rooms and offices - in one door or window and out of another - rather than just moving it around. 2) Attange any portable fans that might be around the office/workspace so that they are all trying to move the air in the same direction through the office. 3) If you are upstairs make use of natural chimney effects to maximise airflow - air will naturally rise up a stairwell. Here in a second floor attic office we get a good flow of cool air by having an outside door open at the bottom of the stairs, the office door open and a fan blowing OUT of the window. Much more effective than fighting the convection up the stairs by using it to blow air in through the window. 4) Minimise heat gain into the room - white walls and roofs and if possible shades (white paper) on the outside of windows. Blinds on the inside of windows have practically no effect as they are heated by the sunlight and then heat the. You need to stop the heat getting in through the glass room (stop the greenhouse effect). 5) Minimise heat gain inside by making sure all unecessary electrical equipment is switched off and that power saving settings are maximised on equipment that is on such as computers. Watch things like fridges that generate a lot of heat and try and put them somewhere where the heat from the back can be carried outside. 6) Take your laptop and mobile home and work in the garden? Simon

Posted By Ron Young Ed The order that you refer to was introduced (I think) in order to preserve stocks of coal etc. during the period of strikes by power station workers & others at that time. It did not allude to "ideal" temperaturesin any way. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Posted By Jim Walker Me again I've been having a look around for research data on this subject and have found a really nice article written by someone in the Air Conditioning industry. He explains why modern building get hot etc. He also cities a number of research documents Human Behaviour & Temperature Performance in function of Temperature The results are fairly much what you would expect - the interesting thing for me is the research quote hard figures for performance falloff and increase in accident rates. * Accidents tend to be more frequent at temp extremes, with an optumium of 20°C * Dexterity rises with temperature to a max at 24°C * Percieved physical comfort is at a maximun at 21°C with a RH of 45% * Physical and mental performance drop off above 24°C This is from research from Prof David Wyon I'm trying to contact him now and might try to get him and TSHP to get together and reprint the article.

Posted By Ashley Williams For anyone who would be interested in a free information leaflet on the topic of temperatures. Keighley Worksafe Project produces another FREE leaflet on the subject. You can contact them on 01535 664462. Regards Ashley

Posted By Martin R. Bessant I recall that NHS Estates require all NHS premises which are not used for patients to be heated to a maximum of nineteen degrees celcius during the heating season. It did not mention a maximum temperature for summer periods however. I also think, as George states, that this had come from a Government Energy Saving Scheme. I wonder if it dates back to the last energy crisis? When I was training (many years ago) I remember being told that the reason that we did not set a maximum temperature was because they had to comply with Europe, and how could you set a maximum that would be regularly exceeded in countries such as Italy and Greece.during summer months.

Posted By Mark Preston You may find the following useful - part of an excellent ergonomics learning resource at the University of Toronto http://anarch.ie.utoront...ronment/environment.html