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#1 Posted : 12 November 2001 16:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Enrique Castro I am a nurse working at an infectious diseases unit. I have got a Diploma in Occupational Health and Safety as well. We moved to our new unit on dec 1998. The unit has got 8 negative-pressure rooms, as we look after TB patients. We use NIOSH masks as you can imagine... The thing is that we noticed 6 months ago that the rooms didnt seem to be working, as they were expelling air instead of "sucking it". I couldnt see any officer testing the ventilation system with smoke screens, neither could I investigate whether we had sensors or alarms. After 2 months trying to fix the ventilation system, we have been told that "someone" decided to move certain sensors we had as they were too "sensitive". My query is: I believe there has been a breach of the Health and Safety Law, as we have not been "prevented to be exposed" to TB. Would anyone like to comment on the whole topic? Thanks
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#2 Posted : 12 November 2001 17:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster Enrique You don't say, but are you working in the UK NHS or elsewhere?
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#3 Posted : 12 November 2001 19:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kevin I would suggest you look at case law, in particular you may find R v Board of Trustees of the Science Museum (1993) an interesting article.
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#4 Posted : 13 November 2001 08:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lance Morgan Enrique I believe this falls within the scope of COSHH. Plenum ventilation is installed and used to control the spread of airborn pathogens in 'high' risk areas such as IDU's and ICU's. The pressure can be changed from positive to negative and viceversa depending on the particular risk of infection i.e. protective isolation as well barrier isolation. As such it should be tested every 14 months to ensure that it is working properly.
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#5 Posted : 13 November 2001 11:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Enrique Castro 1) I am working in an NHS Trust. 2) Thanks for the bits about legislation, but I am certainly unable to find that. I dont know where to look at!!!! 3) I dont think we are able to switch positive to negative pressure. I dont even think we ever had negative pressure achieved. 4) I am not able to find any regulation about how to test that the pressure is right, or that the rooms are working. I got the CDCs (Atlanta) MMRW 1994, with the smoke screens and do on. I would like to know where about in UK legislation says about "14 months" as time to test rooms. CDCs talks about "every week" or "month"!!!! 5) I am downhearted as I feel I am the only one considering there has been a serious breach of law in our workplace. 6) Thanks for the answers!!!!
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#6 Posted : 13 November 2001 12:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lance Morgan The Control of Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations 1999.There is an Approved code of practice. There will also be Health Technical memorandums and Building notes with regard to standards for ventilation systems in IDU's/ICU's obtainable from NHS Estates. Contact your Estates or facilities department. Involve your Occupational health Nurse and Infection Control Doctor or Nurse. Hope this helps Lance
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#7 Posted : 13 November 2001 15:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Young If you think that there has been a breach of H&S law, you should involve the HSE as soon as possible.
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#8 Posted : 14 November 2001 17:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Waldram There is some more general legislation than what has been identified above - the Management of Health & Safety at Work Regs 1999: Under these, all employers have to carry out (and record, if they have more than 5 employees) "suitable & sufficient risk assessments" (Reg. 3), which include identifying the hazard (e.g. spread of TB infection) and the controls they have in place to ensure the risks from these hazards are as low as reasonable (e.g. -ve pressure differential of "x mm's water gauge"). They also need to be able to demonstrate that the controls are effective (MHSW Regs Code of Practice, Para 36a), for example any pressure differential needs to be measured - ideally this would be continuous measurement, with suitable alarms, as apparently was originally fitted. If the technology can't be made to work, then regular manual testing might be OK - but I'd think there still ought to be some alarm to ensure the fan continues to run between tests! So the question to ask is to see the risk assessment - its key findings have to be communicated to those affected by that hazard (see MHSW Regs 10(1)). If there is no relevant risk assessment - the MHSW Regs have been breached. If there is a risk assessment and it quotes the -ve pressure, then ask those responsible for your H&S (the senior medical person for that area - don't let them fob you off by saying that some manager or engineer is responsible, your line manager is!) how they know that control is effective in reducing risk?
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#9 Posted : 08 January 2002 14:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Enrique Castro Thanks for all the answers...I have been abroad for these couple of months, no access to computer. In my absence, apparently the whole issue about the negative pressure rooms has been settled in the following way: 1) No further investigation carried out. Of course, we will never know since when we have been without ventilation, or the level of exposure. I dont know if I mentioned that we have given drugs such as ribavirin and pentamidine in these rooms, and they are highly dangerous, apparently. 2) I have been thinking that, today, what would be the point of going to the Health and Safety Office and saying that I believe there has been a breach in F&s law? I mean, what consequences are there going to be for these people? 3) Would it be worthy going to court? And sorry, but I am sorted, I dont need the money... 4) Where can I get all this documents? Apparently, there was an informal chat in which the Head Manager of the Unit admitted that there wasn't any monitor system in place by the time the cock-up happened, BUT that there wasn't any legislation in place to follow in 1999, apart from CDC, and the British Thoracic Society guidelines about TB management! (which I dont really know what have they got to do with building and monitoring os health-care facilities...). This manager also said that as these were guidelines, they wer not law, and therfore, no-one could enforce them to follow them!!! 5) I am coming back with renovated energy on this topic for personal reasons, and I think it has been a massive farcical smoke curtain. Opinions welcomed...
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#10 Posted : 09 January 2002 11:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster Enrique I think the most important questions are "Has a risk assessment now been carried out? If so, does it identify a need for the differential pressure system? If so, is the system now working as designed? Is it effective? Are there systems now in place to verify its effectiveness, continue to monitor its performance and to ensure remedial action is taken should there be any future shortfalls?" If not, then I really would contact your office of the HSE. Hospitals are currently fairly high on the HSE's hit list. Even if there is no prosecution, or even any enforcement notices, if they have cause for concern they will, as minimum, require the hospital to produce an action plan to bring things up to standard. After all, the primary objective surely is ensuring that things are put right before somebody is harmed rather than seeking retribution for past failings. Unfortunately (though with plenty of shining exceptions), health & safety in the NHS is still often way behind that of general business - Crown Immunity was only lifted in 1991. There is also a common problem with a division between clinical and non-clinical. Health & safety is seen as non-clinical, things like infection control, clinical waste disposal, moving and handling of patients etc are clinical and therefore nothing to do with the Health & Safety Adviser! The Health & Safety at Work Act does not really apply to clinicians!!!! So the occasional big stick to help them see the light may not be so bad. I agree that proving past exposure to a harmful substance would be very difficult if you or your colleagues have no evidence of ill effects. But make sure that you attend your occupational health dept and that your concerns at possible exposures to certain substances are recorded. There may also be tests which can be carried out. If some ill effect should appear in the future at least you will have a chance of demonstrating how and when that happened, (and you may be in more need of the money then) John
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