Posted By Malcolm Or procedure for mobility impaired staff/students is that they go to the refuge point on the escape stair. They wait there until the fire service arrives and evacuates them if required. This has been satisfactory for several years now. following a recent evacuation the officer in charge took exception to our proceddure. We have now had a formal letter from the fire service saying that we may be in breach of the Fire precaution (workplace)regs. Any advice or guidance would be appreciated. Footnote The procedure had been run by the fire service and building control twice in the last year prior to us moving into new buildings.

Posted By Jim Creak All employers are responsible for the safe evacuation of building occupants. The Fire Service are not there to provide this service. It could well be in breach of the Disabled Discrimination Act(DDA) to treat mobility impaired building occupants differently than able bodied people. Safe Areas (Please don't call them refuge points as I have seen on inspection more refuse dumped under these signs by misinformed staff than any anything else!!)are provided as part of your Fire Safety Management system to ensure the completion of your evacuation procedure not the Fire Service!! See www.means-of-escape.com for further information.

Posted By shaun mckeever It is an unfortunate truth that many fire officers do not understand the idea of refuge points. Persons who have responsibility for buildings/workplaces must have suitable and sufficient arrangements for ensuring that disabled persons can reach a place of safety. The place of safety should be the same place of safety that able bodied people can reach. Reliance on the fire service to bring the disabled to a place of safety is fundamentally wrong, e.g. in the City of London you will only have to wait five minutes (normally) for the fire service to arrive but in a more rural area you can wait 20 or more minutes for the fire service to arrive. Would you like to be sitting in a wheelchair in a burning building? Twenty minutes can be a long time also, places of safety within a building are often in the stairwell and the stairwell usually relies on fire doors being kept shut to maintain the integrity of the stairwell but my experience is that these doors are often wedged open and so the place of safety is no longer a place of safety. There are many reasons against leaving the disabled in a building, I can’t think of one good reason for leaving them there to take their chances. A refuge point is only a place of temporary safety – there must be a procedure in place to help the disabled to a final pace of safety.

Posted By John Webster Firstly, let me refer you to the thread "Disabled Evacuation Procedures" posted by JOSEPH RAE on Monday, 05 November 2001, which, as we were about to embark on a programme of work to convert our headquarters building to conform with the 2004 requirements of DDA came as a timely shock. The re-designers had planned for a stair lift to the first floor. When, in the light of the posting, I queried the evacuation arrangements (yes, and consultation with the H&S adviser is another issue) I was told the physically disabled would wait in a safe refuge for evacuation by the fire brigade!! The project has now been re-assessed in light of the ACTUAL requirements of the DDA, not the often (ill-)PERCEIVED requirements. With respect to Part III of the Act, we have managed to eliminate the need for the public to have access above the ground floor. Public meetings (formerly in the first floor Board Room)will now be held in a nearby, disabled friendly, facility. (As a bonus, the occasional rental works out cheaper than the stair lift). A meeting/interview room will be available on the ground floor so that should a physically disabled person wish to meet with an employee on the upper floor, the employee can come down to them. This would also, of course, be available to able bodied visitors. These are permissible solutions under the Act. With regard to employment provision, we have simply agreed that, should a physically disabled person be selected for a post, their office will located on the ground floor, and if this means a re-shuffle of some offices or departments, then so be it. OK, it may be easier for us in a 2 storey office block than for those in multi-storey blocks without fire lifts, but we also have offices in a 3 storey listed building in a conservation area completely enclosed by a narrow street and surrounding, also listed buildings. The DDA does not require that a disabled person have access to all parts of all buildings and premises. It requires that reasonable adjustments be made to ensure that they are not unjustifiably disadvantaged in employment and in access to goods, facilities and services provided by an organisation to the public. Sometimes we will have to be imaginative in finding alternative means to compliance with the Act. John