Posted By Ashley Williams Mark, I think you have to be realistic in the approach to this. Hands free kits are the lesser of two evils. Whilst all the research proves they are a significant risk, not having them poses a much larger risk. If you ban their use can you honestly say that senior managers and directors will also abide by the ban? I too am looking at this issue as im sure many of us are and I think this is one where the risk assessment has to be practical as opposed to reasonably practicable. If they are banned there is no way of enforcing the ban unless you fit trackers and monitors to the car and cross reference to the mobile bill. My personal view is once again the lesser of two evils fit the kits and instruct drivers to use them only when parked up any incoming calls should be answered im driving and I'll ring you back and then returned when parked up. Also consider the types of kits and phones used. The new blue tooth hands free kits appear safer then normal kits but are still in their infancy and are not as reliable when used in practice. Ashley

Posted By Paul Maddock Mark, another approach you may like to consider would be to offer advanced driving courses to the employees on the road (IAM/ROSPA). I am a keen motorcyclist, and the additional risk associated with riding are compensated by greater road awareness amongst most riders. My daily observations of the actions of some people driving with mobile phones attached to their ears completely oblivious to the all those around them still amazes me. ...sorry but this is one of my main rants!

Posted By Laurie We do not permit mobile phone usage, in any form, unless stopped. With the proposed new legislation we may have to modify even that! Have a search through the archive, as this is a "hardy annual" and there are quite a few opinions on this. From memory I think the general consensus is that it is a "no no" Laurie

Posted By Mark Jarman Driving on the road today takes 100% concentration. Mobile phones have an answerphone facility so make use of it.

Posted By Nigel Singleton BSc Could I urge a note of caution, whilst I agree with the stance that Graham is suggesting, I have been on the mobile end (hands free of course) of a very abrupt conversation. As soon as the person calling me realised that I was using a mobile, they refused to talk to me in a very unpolite manner, even though I stated that I was hands free. I am not proud of my driving for the next 10 minutes after the phone call, (however I am only human), I must admit to suffering a type of road rage caused by the abrupt way in which I was spoken to, which led to my driving being a bit erratic. If your policy is to tell mobile users that you will not talk to them whilst driving, please consider the reaction of the driver when you inform them that you will no longer speak to them. There are good and bad ways to inform someone of the safety implications of your actions!

Posted By Dave Daniel As a Safety Consultant I am regularly prparing policies for smaller clients and this is a regular topic of course. My personal view is based on looking at the world around me, not the media "hype". I note the following: All police motocyclists have hands-free 2-way radio sets in their helmets - Are they driving dangerously? All minicabs and taxis have 2 way radios - not all hands-free and this seems to be acceptable - Are they driving dangerously? Ambulance drivers, police panda car drivers, and a variety of lorry drivers are all expected to use 2-way radios to communicate to base. I fully agree that holding a mobile phone to your ear is dangerous when driving, but if we are to ban ALL use of mobiles, shouldn't we also ban all of these other distractive communication systems, and while we're at it prohibit the use of complex radios and stereos in cars as well. It is clear that if this proposal is to be consistent then many organisations will face some difficult decisions. Perhaps it's not the fact you use technology, but the way you do it.... Dave Daniel

Posted By Neal Robertson The point about 2-way radios is also valid - as a CB`er in my youth I can remember yapping into the CB while trying to keep my dilapidated Vauxhall Viva in a straight line, dropping the mike whenever a "Smokey " was about. At the time, the police were just as keen to charge with "Driving without due care & attention" as they are now with mobile phones. The advice then was as it is now - pull over if you want to talk - its saferin the long run.

Posted By Ian Stone Whilst reading this a work mate brought up something else, if mobiles are banned when driving, eating and drinking is banned then what about smoking whilst driving. Many a time he notes he has dropped his lighter etc and trying to find it whilst do 70 up the motorway

Posted By Ian Stone Ken Sorry if my post caused any upset to you, I do not in any way condone what my collegue does and have told him so on a number of occasions, at our workplace we have banned smoking in all of our vehicles

Posted By Andrew Smith The Department for Transport (DfT) have issued a proposal for use of a mobile phone whilst driving to become an offence. Copy of press release issued by DfT can be found at: http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/0208/0049.htm A copy of the proposal (and reply form for anyone to comment) can be downloaded from the following web page: http://www.roads.dft.gov...onsult/mobiles/index.htm Andrew Smith

Posted By George Wedgwood Clearly, many safety practitioners are concerned that they give their managers the right information and guidance on mobile 'phone risks and it seems from the correspondence that many 'knee jerk' reactions are about! What are the risks of an annual fatality? Well in the US, a study showed that this was around 2.5 x 10-5 or 'tolerable' in our words. Over here, we have hardly had sufficient data to quantify exactly but the cases speak for themselves and as far as I can remember, all involve the use of hand-held 'phones. Therefore, employers must ensure that their employees do not use hand-helds and that should be written down clearly for all managers to implement. In BT Businesses, 'policy' is stated mostly as; 'The use of hands-held mobile phones by drivers is banned throughout the Business. There are risks with using hands-free phones whilst driving. Further Guidance provides guidance on minimising the risks.' Such Guidance indicates that using a hands-free phone should only be in an emergency (necessary for many lone women drivers for example in London, where 'scams' often force drivers to stop before being mugged) or let the 'phone switch to voice mail, with a later call-back when stationary. Advice to CALLERS is also given in that persons calling a known mobile number should always ask the person answering if they are driving or is it safe to talk. However, a typical response to cut the call can lead to frustration as typified by one of the Chat respondents! Like any H&S risk, the use of the hands-free has to be managed and this is best done, not by edicts but by training and good management. Our Business needs employees to be able to communicate on-the-job and with a huge fleet of vehicles it is a major culture change to ensure all drivers only call or receive when their vehicle is stationary. However, you have to start somewhere and the control measures must form part of a managed programme of vehicle and driving safety. Other risks (rightly pointed out by others) are often much more significant (typically manual handling whilst changing a wheel; do others ban this activity like us? - driving defensibly; do your drivers have training so that others don't drive into them? - finding an address; do your policies state that you must be safely stationary before trying to look at your paperwork or a map? - awards; do you have incentives for your drivers to aspire to? - certification; do you have methods that examine all licenses and penalty records before 'allowing' drivers to drive a company vehicle? - pre vehicle-change instruction; - are drivers given proper familiarisation before driving a different vehicle?; hours; do you ensure that drivers are not driving through exhaustion or immediately after a large lunch, and sending people away on overseas work, letting them fly back and then expecting them to drive home from Heathrow? - fitness; - are all drivers certificated fit to drive and do they ACTUALLY have good eyesight? - audit; have you established a sound vehicle and driving audit protocol?) I could go on and on but the DTLR/HSC Task Group studied and discussed all this in their deliberations to produce their Report, which all responsible for driving risks should read, along with the good stuff RoSPA has published. At the end of the day it all has to be put into perspective - vehicles are only one of the key hazards that businesses have to risk manage and like any business matter, it has to be prioritised for action. I suggest that those who are concerned, actually try to quantify the problem in their company and design an appropriate risk management plan, agree this wih managers and audit the success of it. A great help is knowing what your actual losses are in connection with the hazard - that can really shake the senior execs up! So I believe that mobile 'phones are here to stay and should be appropriately risk managed using some of the ideas in this thread. But let's get it clear - we won't stop the accidents happening just by penalising employees - there has to be a behavioural approach that gives them some ownership of the risk and a system that delivers the means to minimise it, through the manager and driver. However, the company line should be clear but nevertheless, risk based - after all are we not in the risk business? George