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Posted By Mark Gaines
Dear All,
I am currently reviewing my company's drivers policy in relation to mobile phones. Whilst being aware of the recent proposals on a tightening of the law concerning a ban on the use of hand held phones, I am looking at the wider option of banning all use including hands free. Our current policy allows for the use of approved hands free kits for drivers to receive calls when they deem it safe to do so.
I have undertaken fairly extensive research on various standpoints such as ROSPA, DTER and some European countries. I now wish to find out what other companies are doing and how you feel about the need to ban all use of mobile phones whilst driving.
If you do have a total ban on the use of mobile phones whilst driving, how do you enforce it and what steps have you found necessary to overcome any loss of ability to communicate with drivers?
I will be greatly interested in your views and look forward to hearing from you.
Mark
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Posted By Ashley Williams
Mark,
I think you have to be realistic in the approach to this. Hands free kits are the lesser of two evils. Whilst all the research proves they are a significant risk, not having them poses a much larger risk.
If you ban their use can you honestly say that senior managers and directors will also abide by the ban? I too am looking at this issue as im sure many of us are and I think this is one where the risk assessment has to be practical as opposed to reasonably practicable.
If they are banned there is no way of enforcing the ban unless you fit trackers and monitors to the car and cross reference to the mobile bill.
My personal view is once again the lesser of two evils fit the kits and instruct drivers to use them only when parked up any incoming calls should be answered im driving and I'll ring you back and then returned when parked up.
Also consider the types of kits and phones used. The new blue tooth hands free kits appear safer then normal kits but are still in their infancy and are not as reliable when used in practice.
Ashley
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Posted By Neal Robertson
We incorporated the following into our health & safety policy -
Use of mobile phones whist driving
The use of mobile phones whilst driving is prohibited under the Road Traffic Act, and can lead to a driver being charged with Driving Without Due Care & Attention. This could be applied to hands-free kits as well. Employees who are driving are advised to switch off their mobile phones and make use of their voice messaging systems, and check them when stopped. If an important call is expected, the phone may be left on, but staff must ensure that they stop the vehicle in a suitable safe parking place.
No incidents so far, but anecdotal evidence suggests it is being adhered to.
Hope this helps
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Posted By Paul Maddock
Mark, another approach you may like to consider would be to offer advanced driving courses to the employees on the road (IAM/ROSPA).
I am a keen motorcyclist, and the additional risk associated with riding are compensated by greater road awareness amongst most riders. My daily observations of the actions of some people driving with mobile phones attached to their ears completely oblivious to the all those around them still amazes me.
...sorry but this is one of my main rants!
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Posted By Allan St.John Holt
The Consignia policy (some two years old) is that they will not be used in a vehicle by the driver whilst in motion. Period. We will not pay for handsfree kits to be fitted, or for transfer on vehicle changes. A study is likely in order to identify/verify the extent of the 'problem', but I am not about to engage in an argument. The stats are quite clear on this. With 40,000 vehicles plus 6,000 private cars in the fleet we have too much exposure to road risks as it is!
Allan
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Posted By Laurie
We do not permit mobile phone usage, in any form, unless stopped. With the proposed new legislation we may have to modify even that!
Have a search through the archive, as this is a "hardy annual" and there are quite a few opinions on this. From memory I think the general consensus is that it is a "no no"
Laurie
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Posted By Phil Grace
I recently saw a policeman, in uniform, driving a marked patrol car and using a hand held mobile phone.
So we have some way to go yet...!
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Posted By Mark Jarman
Driving on the road today takes 100% concentration. Mobile phones have an answerphone facility so make use of it.
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Posted By Graham Bullough
On several occasions over the past year or so I have nearly been rammed in my car at junctions and roundabouts by moving vehicles whose drivers seemed to be totally absorbed in twittering into their hand-held mobile phones. Such drivers seem to be on the increase, so I wish I could get a pound for each one I see. What amazes me is that some of them have front seat passengers who could take or make the call if it is really that urgent. Some of them use their other hand to gesticulate during their conversations, so goodness knows how they maintain control of the steering wheel. They're a prime class of people for someone to ask Paul Merton to dump into BBC's "Room 101" if nobody has yet done so!
Right, got those moans off my chest! Now for a suggestion which my colleagues and I try to follow: We increasingly get only mobile numbers for contacting people in our work. When we ring them and get a direct answer, we tend to ask first if they are driving. If they answer yes, we say we'll discontinue the call and phone again later or suggest they call us back when they're not driving. If they add that they are hands-free and conditions are okay, we try to keep the call as short as possible. As other responders have said, hands-free is a lesser evil than hand-held, but still reduces the concentration needed for driving. Therefore, it is understandable that some people and organisations will wish to follow a policy of not continuing calls to anyone they believe to be driving, even if using a hands-free facility. If more of us could follow this practice and encourage others to do so, then surely it could play a small but gradually increasing part in influencing the drivers who like to phone while driving.
Another thought - I don't recall seeing anything on my motor insurance policy about using mobile phones while driving. Could motor insurance companies do their bit to discourage this practice, e.g. by imposing an extra excess in the event of a claim for circumstances in which the use of a mobile phone by the driver was known to have been a factor?
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Posted By Nigel Singleton BSc
Could I urge a note of caution, whilst I agree with the stance that Graham is suggesting, I have been on the mobile end (hands free of course) of a very abrupt conversation. As soon as the person calling me realised that I was using a mobile, they refused to talk to me in a very unpolite manner, even though I stated that I was hands free. I am not proud of my driving for the next 10 minutes after the phone call, (however I am only human), I must admit to suffering a type of road rage caused by the abrupt way in which I was spoken to, which led to my driving being a bit erratic. If your policy is to tell mobile users that you will not talk to them whilst driving, please consider the reaction of the driver when you inform them that you will no longer speak to them. There are good and bad ways to inform someone of the safety implications of your actions!
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Posted By Graham Bullough
Nigel - thanks for your comments about my suggestion. As with any phone discussion there is never really any justification for rudeness or suddenly ending a call without warning. Effective promotion of health and safety depends significantly on the manner and style in which we communicate as much as what we want to communicate. Therefore, for anyone following the suggestion, the following response is proffered for those who know or believe they've phoned someone who's driving with a hand-held mobile phone. Just say that you'd prefer to talk later when they're not driving or, to slightly re-phrase it, that for their sake you'd rather not continue the call while they're on the move. Generally, the drivers my colleagues and I call accept this and either agree to 'phone us back later or indicate when they think it would be safe for us to call again.
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Posted By Dave Daniel
As a Safety Consultant I am regularly prparing policies for smaller clients and this is a regular topic of course. My personal view is based on looking at the world around me, not the media "hype". I note the following:
All police motocyclists have hands-free 2-way radio sets in their helmets - Are they driving dangerously?
All minicabs and taxis have 2 way radios - not all hands-free and this seems to be acceptable - Are they driving dangerously?
Ambulance drivers, police panda car drivers, and a variety of lorry drivers are all expected to use 2-way radios to communicate to base.
I fully agree that holding a mobile phone to your ear is dangerous when driving, but if we are to ban ALL use of mobiles, shouldn't we also ban all of these other distractive communication systems, and while we're at it prohibit the use of complex radios and stereos in cars as well. It is clear that if this proposal is to be consistent then many organisations will face some difficult decisions.
Perhaps it's not the fact you use technology, but the way you do it....
Dave Daniel
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Don't forget also that motorcyclists are required to use these personal hands -free radios as a necessary part of their driving
test. It is for the examiner to relay instructions to the examinee. Obviously this is OK!! why else would the Driving Standards Authority choose to use it?!!!!
Bob
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Posted By Neal Robertson
The point about 2-way radios is also valid - as a CB`er in my youth I can remember yapping into the CB while trying to keep my dilapidated Vauxhall Viva in a straight line, dropping the mike whenever a "Smokey " was about. At the time, the police were just as keen to charge with "Driving without due care & attention" as they are now with mobile phones.
The advice then was as it is now - pull over if you want to talk - its saferin the long run.
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Posted By David Mains
Have to agree with Dave Daniel on this one.
If talking into a hands free mobile is deemed to be dangerous then surely having a conversation with passenger(s) is also deemed to be a danger.
In my opinion it would be very difficult to enforce policy banning hands free tele-communication whilst driving and impossible for the police to enforce it. Anyone stoppped by those nice chaps in the traffic police could simply say that they were talking to themselves!
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Posted By Ian Stone
Whilst reading this a work mate brought up something else, if mobiles are banned when driving, eating and drinking is banned then what about smoking whilst driving. Many a time he notes he has dropped his lighter etc and trying to find it whilst do 70 up the motorway
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Posted By Ken Lucas
Ian and all
Having spent time in hospital fighting for my life because an individual "dropped" a cigarette lighter in his car and hence took his eye off the road and hit me head on, and then seen the anguish, worry and heartache my wife, children and parents went through, not forgetting my own rehabilitation and also the utter waste of NHS and emergency services time/resources etc, I hope I do not happen to be on the road when your colleague is driving at 70 up the motorway fumbling for his lighter.
Forget legislation, think what is "best practice" think what did I get into this vehicle to do and think common sense. If you need to do anything other than driving then surely we as SP's must promote that the vehicle is stopped and therefore the policy should be quite straightforward - remember Gary Hart?
Ken
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Posted By Ian Stone
Ken
Sorry if my post caused any upset to you, I do not in any way condone what my collegue does and have told him so on a number of occasions, at our workplace we have banned smoking in all of our vehicles
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Posted By Ken Lucas
No worries Ian not upset, it is just that for obvious reasons driving correctly/safely is a bit of a "hobby horse" for me. I believe that the motor vehicle is arguably the most dangerous piece of "equipment" and needs to be treated as such. Any driving/mobile phone policy should therefore reflect that. We as SP's try to ensure that all workers use their machinery/equipment safely in the workplace and so we should promote safe driving wherever we have the opportunity, taking into account of course, common sense and reasonableness.
Ken
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Posted By Laurie
Some years ago, when motor cyclists wore "pudding basin" helmets, I once had a carelessly discarded cigarette end go down the leather "curtain" round the back and sides of the neck.
This was in the days before speed limits.
Though I maneged to stay on, I still have the burn scar (and a bike!)
Driving is a full time task, and needs no distractions of any sort
Laurie
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Posted By George Wedgwood
Clearly, many safety practitioners are concerned that they give their managers the right information and guidance on mobile 'phone risks and it seems from the correspondence that many 'knee jerk' reactions are about! What are the risks of an annual fatality? Well in the US, a study showed that this was around 2.5 x 10-5 or 'tolerable' in our words. Over here, we have hardly had sufficient data to quantify exactly but the cases speak for themselves and as far as I can remember, all involve the use of hand-held 'phones. Therefore, employers must ensure that their employees do not use hand-helds and that should be written down clearly for all managers to implement.
In BT Businesses, 'policy' is stated mostly as; 'The use of hands-held mobile phones by drivers is banned throughout the Business. There are risks with using hands-free phones whilst driving. Further Guidance provides guidance on minimising the risks.'
Such Guidance indicates that using a hands-free phone should only be in an emergency (necessary for many lone women drivers for example in London, where 'scams' often force drivers to stop before being mugged) or let the 'phone switch to voice mail, with a later call-back when stationary.
Advice to CALLERS is also given in that persons calling a known mobile number should always ask the person answering if they are driving or is it safe to talk. However, a typical response to cut the call can lead to frustration as typified by one of the Chat respondents!
Like any H&S risk, the use of the hands-free has to be managed and this is best done, not by edicts but by training and good management. Our Business needs employees to be able to communicate on-the-job and with a huge fleet of vehicles it is a major culture change to ensure all drivers only call or receive when their vehicle is stationary. However, you have to start somewhere and the control measures must form part of a managed programme of vehicle and driving safety.
Other risks (rightly pointed out by others) are often much more significant (typically manual handling whilst changing a wheel; do others ban this activity like us? - driving defensibly; do your drivers have training so that others don't drive into them? - finding an address; do your policies state that you must be safely stationary before trying to look at your paperwork or a map? - awards; do you have incentives for your drivers to aspire to? - certification; do you have methods that examine all licenses and penalty records before 'allowing' drivers to drive a company vehicle? - pre vehicle-change instruction; - are drivers given proper familiarisation before driving a different vehicle?; hours; do you ensure that drivers are not driving through exhaustion or immediately after a large lunch, and sending people away on overseas work, letting them fly back and then expecting them to drive home from Heathrow? - fitness; - are all drivers certificated fit to drive and do they ACTUALLY have good eyesight? - audit; have you established a sound vehicle and driving audit protocol?)
I could go on and on but the DTLR/HSC Task Group studied and discussed all this in their deliberations to produce their Report, which all responsible for driving risks should read, along with the good stuff RoSPA has published.
At the end of the day it all has to be put into perspective - vehicles are only one of the key hazards that businesses have to risk manage and like any business matter, it has to be prioritised for action. I suggest that those who are concerned, actually try to quantify the problem in their company and design an appropriate risk management plan, agree this wih managers and audit the success of it. A great help is knowing what your actual losses are in connection with the hazard - that can really shake the senior execs up!
So I believe that mobile 'phones are here to stay and should be appropriately risk managed using some of the ideas in this thread. But let's get it clear - we won't stop the accidents happening just by penalising employees - there has to be a behavioural approach that gives them some ownership of the risk and a system that delivers the means to minimise it, through the manager and driver. However, the company line should be clear but nevertheless, risk based - after all are we not in the risk business?
George
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Posted By sylvia
Hmm - interesting idea to ban everything, hands-free included. I pride myself on being a responsible driver, and accepting that even hands-free telecons are distracting, I rarely answer actual calls, but may listen to messages at a suitable point. This gives me control over the environment. However, another real business-related road risk is trying to read a map or refer to route notes on the move - even if you can find somewhere to pull up each time, it's frustrating and time consuming. I recently started to use the Yeoman traffic routing system - contact the call centre (whilst safely stopped), give where you're going, and from, and the route is stored to be accessed by mobile as you need it turn by turn. With a hands-free kit, this works safely - I choose the appropriate moments to access - and saves me time, aggro, and money in the long run. According to speculation on the extent of this proposed ban, this will be forbidden (or by some company policies). What's the point of fantastic technology if it can't be used? Will Yeoman go out of business? Will I have to resort to maps all over the front seat and falling onto the floor when I brake with all the subsequent distraction . .
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