Posted By Geoff Burt One client had security problems and put in CCTV. The expected security improvement worked fine but an additional unexpected result was a decrease in employee speeding through the service roads and car park. Geoff

Posted By Nick Higginson John, I guess sometimes there is no carrot that will attract the donkey(s)? Police have been trying for years to reduce road deaths for years by advertising campaigns showing us what we can do to children when we hit them at certain speeds etc. As none of this has worked, we are subjected to speed cameras on every major route in the country. Interesting that recent research shows that it is working. Regards, Nick

Posted By Jim Walker Eliminate the activity. Make them walk!

Posted By Geoff Burt John I know where you are coming from but if there was a successful way of doing it we wouldn't have nearly 10 fatalities a day on our roads. I'd be interested in hearing if you come up with anything. Geoff

Posted By lawrence baldwin John You say you have a speeding problem but you haven't quantified the problem. How fast are the cars actually travelling over and above the prescribed limit, or is it a perceived excessive speed or discourtious nature to pedestrians on the blinkered route home. There are environmental organisations that can monitor traffic density and speed at specific locations over periods of time, if you have not done that already, to get an actual idea of the problem. (quantified data is easier to deal with sometimes than perceived data) If the problem is pedestrians going to and from the vehicles, is it practical to identify a central pedestrian route through the centre or perimeter, into and out of the car park, clearly identified similar to that of zebra crossings that has priority over vehicles. Traffic calming is not necessarily the panacea to controlling vehicles, neither I believe is the carrot and stick as the problem is here enforcement, after metering out whatever punishment, will that improve the drivers ability. My advice would be to quantify the problem, then look to separate pedestrians from vehicles within your design restrictions backed up by good and plentiful signage (albeit palliative) and high visibility Road Safety campaign by the local boys in blue. Involve your safety reps as well. Lawrence

Posted By Malcolm Hogarth It sounds as though you have a pretty big site to cover. Just a few thoughts to throw into the pot: I agree agree with the idea of involving safety reps but there is also the issue of the safety culture to consider. Who are the culprits? Do they include people who should know better? Suggest reinforce the message at employees induction, safety committee meetings, department meetings etc. Involve senior management, even Directors.

Posted By john ridley 10 MPH limit is the limit on site but some drivers drive upwards of 40 mph. We recommended an original layout design for the car park but like normal we were ignored. This has led to the situation we are now in. Yes I know that they should put it right, but money is extermely tight just now and to ameliorate this will cost £90,000. Money quite frankly, we don't have. The density of traffie is not the concern more of an attitude/culture issue. As a young telecomms company we operate with people who are very "can do" and all rules only exist to be challenged. To give an idea I dealt with a close colleague who passsed a red traffic light onto the site, When politely asked why she had done this she said "because there is no reason to stop" meaning she couldn't see any reason. She wasn't being Bolshy, it's truly what she believed. Pedestrians going to and from the vehicles, is maybe something we could look at as these pass over the Rat Runs that have been created. Totally agree with the enforcement issue and we will look at introducing car pass bans on a "three strikes and your out" basis, but I would still have liked to have come up with a "carrot". At least it would help these see better in the dark. Thanks

Posted By Dave Wilson John, Have you thought about naming and shaming the culprits and embarrass them into slowing down, a league table of wrong doers etc.

Posted By Raymond Rapp Merv et al, I read your 'behavouril safety' ideas with disbelief, surely you can't be serious. I do not advocate disciplinary or blame culture attitudes but nonetheless some reality would not go amiss. People who are acting unsafely, whether they are driving too fast or any other form of risk taking behaviour must be stopped. Can you imagine a scenario where someone is seriously hurt, and asked what management were doing about the problem - rewarding good behaviour with a new widscreen scraper. See you in Court would be the reply. No offence - Ray

Posted By Jim Walker John, Your comment "we are a young telecomms with a can do attitude". Sounds more like a infant school to me; with the little brats seeing how far they can push their luck. Here is a carrot to try - worse offender of the month prize - tour of the local A&E. Whilst I hate using a stick, you need to get over to these intellectually stunted individuals the potential consequences of their actions. I suspect they would be the first to start looking for someone to blame if it was them that was injured.

Posted By john ridley Thanks for all your input guys and I suppose as with every thread there has to be a cut off point, so this is it. I have digested all you have stated and are proposing the following ways of how we can address this whole issue 1. Increase the speed limit on site from 10 to 29 mph in front of building and along access road,19 mph in road along car park and 10 mph within parking bay areas. This will make it a more noticeable and practical speed limit that is more likely to be obeyed than the current site wide 10mph. 2. Place inspirational safety signs along access road e.g. run a competition for employees children to design the signs 3. Provide an on line facility for people to report offenders. 4. Periodic monitoring of car park and the creation of a “nibblers” book based on three strikes and you have your car pass removed. 5. Full enforcement of disciplinary procedures for repeated offenders. 6. Make car park a pedestrian controlled zone giving pedestrians the right of way in all circumstances. 7. Remove ramps from road and re-site to end of each spur. This will remove the “rat runs” already created. 8. Define "good behaviour", preferably with the help of the people involved - try a "man in the car park" questionnaire. 9. Encourage and recognise good/safe behaviour 10. Measure the baseline - what is the frequency of good/safe behaviour in the car park? 11. Set an objective - preferably with the help of the "man in the car park" 12. Define rewards - "if the level rises to "baseline + X % we'll make a donation to a charity of choice or our social club (Junction 11). 13. Observe and measure the percentage of good/safe behaviour 14. Provide feedback - "this week we were at Y% compared to our objective of x% " 15. Give the rewards when they are gained. 16. Organise a monthly draw with all offenders eliminated. A weeks meals in the staff restaurant can be the prize. Although I am closing down this thread, should anyone have any further suggestions they want to make, I will of course be monitoring the thread for a while. Many thanks to all who contributed, it has been very useful and hopefully we all learned from it. All too often I think the forum only argues diametrically oppposed opinions and does not come to useful conclusions. I will let you know what the final decision and result is. John

Posted By interbeer HI, I am no safety expert but did nearly get court speeding 36 miles per hour in a 30 zone. I did not get the big hassle it was only 6 miles per hour over the limit big deal. I was cought on a small road in the districe of Hull. I did not get a fine or points but was offered a training session about speed and road safety by the Hull Road Safety part of the police department it cost me £50 but i gained the knwolage that my actions could kill?? You may be able to come up with a simmelar training day if you talk to the local police or contact Hull Road Police. How about a training sesion for all employees and then three strikes and you are out? or speed safety fines to go to a local charity? It could be the carrot you are looking for! Hope this helps Interbeer.