Posted By Shane Johnston We have been advise that "all crane operators will probably need to be LOLER certified", however I can find no mention of certification within LOLER or PUWER. Anyone any idea where the "certification" comes from, or any accredited training courses. I am looking mainly at cranes on the back of lorries. Shane

Posted By Robert K Lewis It is a moot point about the precise meaning of reg 8 LOLER but I think the general emphasis is towards the type of person identified in the BS. It is also not clear in the regs themselves that the role has also to be about co-ordination of the various lifting operations that are occurring at any one time in an area. I have raised the question of training before and had some replies on the courses available. I would again make the point that the person intended in 8.a is not the signaller/slinger - these fall more into requirements of 8.b/c it is all to easy to be talked into the trap of being talked into a signaller/slinger course. My belief is firmly that the competent person must be able to select the appropriate equipment for the lifts in question, assess the ground, assess the method statements and control the liaison of contractors. Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis Yes it is what I think I am saying depending on which day it is, which site manager I am trying to get thru to and whether there is a Sheffield Flood - but these are other stories. They could be combined in one person but are not the same function as I am afraid many training organisations seem to think. In my view the competent person has a technical role which does match the crane co-ordinator role of the BS - but it is wider in that ALL lifting equipment is included. I look for a technical background first and then train. The signaller/slinger role is a trade role, I do not mean that disparagingly, and requires a hands on practical expertise. If you think about it - who is best able to assess ground bearing capacity, check mat size calculations under outrigger feet etc? - The answer is generally an engineer or a person able to get an engineer. The 8.a person is therefore a management/senior supervisory role in my view at least.

Posted By Robert K Lewis It is the employer who appoints and therefore if a person has the attributes it is the employers decision to appoint them to the task. I feel that the push by crane operators is towards "contract" lifts where they undertake the work from start to finish - and all responsibility devolves to them in this situation. I am not convinced that they could take on this responsibility, or would wish to do so, where there is a range of other lifting operations occurring within the area. This is where their arguments fall down - I cannot have two appointed persons controlling lifting operations as the overall management then fails. The other problem currently is that CITB are actively working on changes to the CSCS, CTA and NPORS schemes to unify them into a single card. NPORS,National Plant Operative Registration Scheme, have a Crane Co-ordinators syllabus but the placing of it in this type of scheme contradicts I believe some of my views as this means it is no longer seen as a managerial function. Bob