Posted By Raymond Rapp
At a recent EGM at my golf club the contentious subject of health and safety reared its ugly head. Basically an independant report was commissioned by the club to investigate those areas where it was considered risks from errant golf shots were unusually high. Certain risks were identified and mitigating controls were suggested.

I stepped in to to give a 'second opinion' and essentially agreed with the independant consultant. However, I checked with current legislation and HSE guidelines which largely omit risks from errant golf shots. I even went to the extreme and contacted the HSE direct with my concerns but alas to no avail. Using common sense and knowledege I persuaded the Directors to accept some practicable solutions.

Unfortunately at our EGM a number of so-called 'experts' argued against those changes and have caused the Directors of the club a dilemma. Citing the usual arguments 'no one has been killed' etc.

Any thoughts or examples that could be used to sway the doubters would be appreciated.

Regards,

Ray

Posted By Ian Stone
Raymond

At my local club they have had problems as a green is next to a main road and there was incidents where the odd ball had hit cars, to combat this in the short term they have provided better netting along that side and are planning to move the green to a better position. This was brought up in an EGM and the players were happy with this solution(even the old guard!) I think in this day and age you have to take a practical approach to matters, it doesnt matter if no on has been killed, if the potential is there

Ian

Posted By Benedict Thierry
Sorry to butt in.

You don't say who is being put at potential risk from errant golf shots - golfers, public, staff, hotel guests,others, etc.

I worked on a golf course as a greenkeeper.

There were days when you'd swear the golfers delighted in taking pot shots at you as though practicing for shooting ducks at the fair.

There were other golfers you prayed would realise very quickly they would never develop the skill to play a round of golf and that they would reduce their frustration at not being able to hit a ball in anything like a direction of choice and save us all some worry.

There is a code of etiquette for players and greenkeepers. Players rarely seem to have any notion about it.

Many (if not most) golf courses fail to keep any such records (and many other records).

My prayers were never answered that when the inspector visited the good book would get thrown - poor storage, equipment/ machines not maintained (the of wheels that fell off), no welfare facilities, fuel store not complying with regulations, no warnings put out when spraying(some golf courses have the decency to close for this operation), no HAVS controls,working hours....... the list is endless.

Ummm, the old guard .............









































































They do not come within the direct scope of the HSE but the Local Authority Environmental health dept.

I know of one golf course where a member of staff and a mower slipped over the edge of a bunker( a drop of some 8m) ...... the bunker is still there the member of staff is no longer amongst us.

It is an historic golf course built by the designer Colt(late 19th early 20th century if I remember rightly) ...... and heaven forbid that anything should be altered in the name of common sense.

Posted By Ron Young
I may be missing something here so correct me if I'm wrong (Geoff usually does). The only people who would be controlled by H&S systems are the employees of the golf course, e.g. greenkeepers and any others who have to operate on the course during "open" times, no pun intended. This is why the HSE have few guidelines and legislation is non existent. When greenkeepers are training for their respective N/SVQ's, part of the training involves them learning of the dangers whilst working on the course. My recollection of systems when I worked for a Local Enterprise Company were the issue of bump caps and safety specs when working on the course and the constant drumming in of information from tutors and managers alike, to be aware of what is happening around you. Sure you don't see or hear everything but just being aware reduced the accident potential. Again from experience, the only times I saw high fencing/netting or other precautionary methods used was to prevent the club from Civil claims for damages to property adjacent to the course, where a similar event had occurred. Everyone knows of the risk of being struck by a golf ball when they take to the course but unless they are employed as above, they are not at work and therefore are not party to HASAW. My bottom line I suppose is, why use Health & Safety practices to try and force change when in reality, the situation described in the posting has at best, tenuous links to it and more to other civil avenues. Health & Safety has a bad enough name for introducing restrictive rules and in my humble opinion shouldn't be used in this case.

Posted By Benedict Thierry
Ummm - interesting.

What got my goat is that people were more likely to be refused a round of golf because of the clothes they were wearing rather than the risk they posed to other people (people have to learn) or the complete disregard for the rules of the game they were supposedly trying to play( they pay.

The times I was verbally abused for being on the course carrying out essential works so the patrons could have an enjoyable game - result - the management said we can't afford to upset the patrons - result - time to leave.

We did irrigate one green very heavily to try to keep it soft to prevent golf balls bouncing & hitting people, pets or canal barges on the adjacent canal towpath and canal which ran through the middle of the golf course. This had little effect on ball bounce - but caused other problems with disease, moss etc. so increasing the need for chemical interventions - not so much errant golf shot as problem bounce.

We found the commonest cause for fatality/ illness was overexcitment(irritation/ euphoria) or over stressing(exercise) both leading to heart failure and often death as the emergency services had problems arriving on the scene speedily.

But errant golf shots is a frequent and recurring daily risk.

In my mind, an unacceptable one.All steps, both reasonable and unreasonable should be taken to reduce the risk from this uncontrollable( currently) hazard.

Posted By Arthur Hendry Paterson
Hello

I am no golfer.

To gentleman who's friend lost an eye. Sorry to read about your friend. BUT, has the bolder been removed to prevent a reccurrence.?

To the gentleman who says HASAWA covers
employees only. This act covers employees, trespassers, visitors, and contractors etc.
The golf club is an employer and should display the relevent HASAW posters.

To the gentlemen that is seeking a soloution
to inerant shots through club meetings. Does your club keep an accident log book.? Does you club have liabilty insurance.? Are all members and non-members, visitors to the club taking through a club induction and giving a set of rules/guidelines. Inerant shots probably
have been around for years, prevention is better than cure. How do you stop someone
from hitting an inacurate ball.?

Lastly, I read a piece here that someone
or some club are looking at redirecting
their greens. Is it worth the cost. Have
you looked at other soloutions.?

Posted By Geoff Burt
Ron

You hadn't been mixing your water with something had you before writing that piece?

Geoff

Posted By Ron Young
Na Geoff,

Had a quiet(ish) day and I thought I would liven it up. I was trying to say albeit badly that everything has a risk and if we continue to impose rules, sanctions or systems of work in everything we do, we are going to be so far removed from reality, we won't know a risk if it stares us in the face. Glad to have stirred it a bit, it's been a while...

Posted By Ron Young
Agreed Geoff,

Maybe King James had a good idea all these years ago, ergo, banning golf to ensure his archers got enough practice...

Posted By Allan St.John Holt
Talking of archery - I had an interesting email yesterday concerning the assessments done by a training company. Evidently they run interactive events to build confidence, and three of them were:

getting the team to break a block of wood (each) using bare hands, karate-chop style

walking over broken glass barefoot

Breaking an arrow by having it pressed against the neck muscles by a partner until it snaps

The assessments were interesting because they revealed the supposed trick in each of them, but completely failed to recognise that if the trick went wrong someone could get hurt.

In the last case for example, the explanation was that the neck muscles are really strong and target arrows will be specially-selected weak ones. Risk reduced and G&Ts all round. It failed to notice that if the point slips, the larynx is far less resistant to arrow points.

But at least they had done an assessment. Apparently nobody has questioned it/them before....

It will not surprise anyone that this came to my notice when following up a RIDDOR report on 'broken bones in hand' due to karate chopping a block of wood. We don't get many of those.

Allan

Posted By Allan St.John Holt
Terminology, please - the Post Office is only one of five businesses with Royal Mail Group! But it is losing money, as you say. One of our people was on an awareness day with training provided by an outide organisation, where this was one of the activities that people were expected to take part in. The assessment said the board (special lightweight) was to be broken with the flat of the hand, but evidently that hadn't been appreciated by the instructor.

Allan

Posted By Dave Wilson
As a low figure golfer and played for many years I have insurance for this and part of your green fees goes to cover this as well.

forget about just golf what about Squash, tennis, cricket, rugby, football the list goes on. The 'club' cannot and should not be held resposible for the actions of a third party (golfer) That said if there is a real hazard where due to the design of the course it is highly likely that golf balls may leave the 'curtelage' of the course to the detrement of an outside person then they have to address that.

For instance if the ball goes OOB into a field then the damage would be low (Unless trespass to get ball, place sign that you cannot retrieve from here) or if it goes into a dwelling house consistently then you can and should do something about it.

Last year the chap who lives in the 'only' house surrounding our course brought in a boot load of golf balls which he had collected the previous year.

The club moved the tee so that you are less likely to hit a ball into his property, planted trees and erected a high net / fence, problem is now solved.

My insurance covers me for this and for a hole in one, I personally have been hit 3 times, all my own fault, and had 1 hole in one but never needed the insurance.

(cost about £35 pa to cover, loss of clubs, 3rd party injury, hole in one etc!)

personally I would make it a requirement that if you play golf or any other sport you must have insurance for 3rd party liability and the club should enforce that.