Posted By Geoff Burt I can see the logic but what about those employers who don't test equipment. What would be your fall back position. Another argument is - is there a need to check new equipment, and how new is new. Do you actually need a PAT regime or would a physical inspection do of the appliance, the cable and plug. And if you have RCDs fitted to the circuits being used, that provides another layer of protection. Who is going to keep all the records - whichever way you go. When you had your PAT guy in place how many modern appliances were found to be at fault - bearing in mind that new equipment is double insulated, comes with a fitted plug and the right value fuse (the main problems in the past). Very rare I would think. Competence to physically inspect? - perhaps the lecturers with some basic information provided, , some simple instruction on what to look for, and a checklist. Geoff

Posted By Geoff Burt Neil YOu've touched on a point I initially wrote out and then deleted. How often do you inspect. If the equipment is used daily by the students (as defined in the initial question the equipment belongs to employers and is constantly used by students) both at the college and their place of employment, then it would have been reasonable to inspect the equipment each time they attended college. This would be on the grounds you have a college inspection regime in place but that you have had no control over the equipment for the rest of the time and could not know if it has been damaged. So now it is getting to a stage of impracticality. In practical terms I'd offer the opinion that a physical check should be regularly carried out by the college and suitably recorded. Geoff

Posted By Geoff Burt I advocate inspecting and/or testing employees own equipment when brought into the employers premises on the grounds the employer is then responsible for it. Clear cut I think on that one. But the students are not in the employers premises and are, if effect, renting accommodation from a landlord. Does the occupiers liability ie the landlord, extend to checking appliances used by tenants if not provided by him? I wouldn't have thought so. But let's look at the risk as Neil mentioned - is it significant? Again I would have thought not, but it could be further reduced by ensuring the fixed installation is regularly checked (including security of wall sockets) and RCDs are in the circuits being used. Geoff

Posted By Francis MSc MIOSH RSP Have you looked at some of the good freebies from the hse on this- including INDG 354- search on "electrical" on hse.gov.uk?

Posted By Ian Stone Many thanks for all the responses, its given me some things to think about. In the past every student that have arrived with equipment has been checked using the PAT testing machine before use. Im talking to our electrical guys on the issues of RCD,s etc Jim, we never ignore our responsibilities for finacial savings, the safety of our staff, students and visitors is paramount and no savings will be brought in to jeapodise that

Posted By Jim Walker Sorry Ian, I didn't mean to suggest you were trying to cop out. The idea of making the PAT bloke redudant annoyed me. Not that I thought you had a hand in it.

Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke Hi This won't solve your whole problem but it may help... Have you got a local college that delivers the PAT courses? When I undertook the course, the department kept having to buy electrical equipment for students to practise on. As PAT is a form of destructive testing, the appliances don't last that long. So.. try creating an arrangement whereby a group or your students all turn up with their equipment and the PAT students test them for you under the supervision of the electrical tutor??? Linda