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Posted By gaz
Dear all
Unbeliveable this one, but sadly true. I work in a hotel with extensive conference facilites. One of the delegates had left a large box overnight in the conference room, containing lots of classifed information. Whilst servicing the room a memeber of staff chucked the box in the large waste compactor skip. Upon returning the next morning to retrive his box, the delegate was very, very angry.
senior management was concerned about litigation threats from the delegate & informed staff to enter the waste compactor skip and retrive the box. The compacter is powered by 415v. I tried to put my foot down and forbid that any memeber of staff enter the skip, however management got thier way and staff entred the skip,(after obviously isolating the power and pushing the emergency stop button). The box of doccuments could not be found, so mangement asked "can the company that take the compactor empty the skip on the car park", i informed him that the skip holds over 4.5 tons worth of waste and thier is environmental, food hygiene and safety implications if this happened. A memeber of staff accompanied the waste compactor to the local council tip (on his own, so obviously a lone worker), were the rubbish was sorted through and the box was eventually found. For all the above activites H&S was not considered once, i know this because i have not seen one risk assessment/safe system of work etc.
Obviously as a safety practioner i am appalled at senior managements attitude over this, however insted of jumping in with 2 feet and "discussing"(usualy loudly) with management, i want to blind them with science in our weekly management meeting. As such could you help me with the following queries.
- Even though the eletrical power was isolated & the emergency cut off switch activated, is there any risk of the being stored electrical power in the compactor causing the moving parts to activate and cause serious harm to staff?
- Do you know of any incidents that have happened when anyone has been injured climbing into a compactor. If yes how bad was the injuries and was the offending company prosecuted.
- Do you know of any incidents were people have been injured at tips, how bad was the injuries and was the offending company prosecuted
- Any horror stories about lone working.
Your help is greatly apprecaited.
Gaz
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Gaz,
I sympathise with your predicament as a safety practitioner. I do not have any direct knowledge of the waste disposal methods in your example, but clearly some poor practices have been carried out. I am sure with some in depth study a number of contraventions could be listed (Leptosporosis etc). However, the example you cite is essentially poor practice. Perhaps senior management should have set a good example by carrying out the search themselves, waste high in garbage, no I don't think so either.
Regards
Ray
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Posted By Jason Touraine
I too am not familiar with the process.
But I wonder if you are approaching this from the right angle. You have started from the position that you must not permit the activity and now you want to justify that position.
Instead why not try and think how you can enable management to achieve their objectives (ie retrieve the 'classified' documents). Have you considered how (or possibly whether) it could be done safely; what controls need to be introduced? I would have thought it likely a method could be devised although it may be that the cost of the controls would be prohibitive but that would be a decision for your managers (how much do they -and the clients- want to get the documents back).
I find the automatic 'you can't do that approach depressing'; let's try the 'how can I help you do it safely' approach.
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Posted By Gavin Gibson
I would agree with jason. You will make far better progress if you present solutions rather than problems. For example, if you had said to your senior managers that you were concerned about their idea and a safer way of getting the documents would be ....
I am sure you would have been listened to.
In any event, you could use the hygiene issues, possibly confined space regs, workplace regs and maybe you could suggest an ammendment to the contract with your waste supplier so that, for a premium, they would carry out such tasks for you. In addition, amend your room reservation paperwork and signage in the room to state that the conference rooms are cleaned each evening amnd the management take no responsibility for items left in there.
Gavin
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Posted By Philip McAleenan
Gaz,
To answer some of your questions:
1. There is always the possibility of residual energy in the equipment. Electrical energy needs to be discharged, and can usually be achieved by turning the equipment on in the normal manner. This will discharge any residual power and at the same time prove your isolation. But remember there is always and energy source in the mechanical components of the compactor and if these are not blocked or propped-up and then locked off, they have the potential to move under the force of e.g. gravity. And again you also have the vast energy source behind 4.5 tons of waste that cannot be safely secured against movement. If this were to slip then your workers would be engulfed with potentially fatal consequences.
2. You have described isolation. This in itself will not guarantee the security of the operation and the safety of the workers inside the compactor. You need to ensure that you have a proper lockout and tag procedure in place, that the workers are trained in its application and that it is correctly applied before any work commences. However, given what Raymond and I have said about the hazards of waste, you still have an unsafe environment within the compactor into which no one should be sent. (Note also that use of the emergency stop button is not a correct means of controlling the security of the isolation).
3. During research some years ago I came across some rather gruesome photographs of compactor incidents, I cannot remember where, but the result of the accident was decapitation. I do not recall whether the company was prosecuted. However, the option to prosecute a company for failing to provide a safe place of work and to competently manage work operations is taken on the basis of the statutes then in force and the outcomes of the accident investigation, and not on whether this type of incident had been previously prosecuted.
4. Regarding lone working, I am aware of an incident when a worker entered a confined space unbeknownst to anyone else and accidentally locked himself inside. He was found some hours later and was lucky to have survived the incident. Oxygen levels were very low and the atmosphere was full of exhaust fume.
I hope that these comments help.
Regards, Philip
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Posted By Miriam
Gaz: A fatality occurred at a Local Authority run Waste Transfer Station in south London in 1987, when a young man working inside a waste container was decapitated by its machinery. This may be the same incident that Philip alluded to. Civic Amenity sites (publish rubbish tips) are hazardous places and I'm surprised that council workers at your local tip allowed a member of the public (your employee that is) to sort through rubbish, even though it came from your own premises. It beggars belief that your management ordered staff into a potentially life-threatening situation merely to retrieve some documents. What if an employee had been seriously injured or killed? The cost of prosecution, compensation would have outweighed any legal action the delegate threatened. After all, the box and its contents was the delegate's responsibility. Perhaps you need to review your hire agreements. Do they include a disclaimer which says hirees of your hotel's facilities are responsible for their own belongings/use your hotel's car park at their own risk, etc? I agree with Philip's Points 1 and 2, but you could also get some health & safety data from the contractor who supplies your waste compactor to present at your next management meeting. It may also be a good idea to advise your staff not to make a habit of climbing into the waste compactor. Apart from the "yuk" factor, it is dangerous.
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Posted By Ken Taylor
I can recall incidents ranging from amputation of an arm to death - but not the details. The correct procedure for recovery (as has been carried out before on a number of occasions) involves emptying at a safe location and search by trained persons using the correct PPE. This seems to be what happened eventually and with success (Qed).
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Posted By Neil Pearson
I really wouldn't try to blind them with science. By all means raise these questions, but the fact that they are unanswered is just another way of saying the risk assessment wasn't carried out. That's a criminal offence.
Don't try to make them speak your language, instead try to get through to them in their own language by talking about the specific requirements for risk assessment, planning, organisation etc. Explain how they simply exchanged one liability (to the delegate) for another (to their employees). Also, try to get across the incredible impact serious accidents have in companies.
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Posted By David J Bristow
Gaz
Have emailed you direct about an incident (personal) which happended in HULL 1996
Regards
David B
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Gaz
Thinking out of the box - I think the bomb threat procedures need to be reinforced. This is I presume a major conference centre with high profile figures attending. If the box should not have been there the bomb procedure should have been initiated. I can imagine the red face explanations to the Bomb squad after a controlled explosion. One of my safety officers working on a prison refurb. made this mistake some years ago when he left his briefcase by his car in the carpark. He still remembers the interviews with the deputy governer, governer and the bomb squad officer!!
Good luck
Bob
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