Posted By gaz Dear all Unbeliveable this one, but sadly true. I work in a hotel with extensive conference facilites. One of the delegates had left a large box overnight in the conference room, containing lots of classifed information. Whilst servicing the room a memeber of staff chucked the box in the large waste compactor skip. Upon returning the next morning to retrive his box, the delegate was very, very angry. senior management was concerned about litigation threats from the delegate & informed staff to enter the waste compactor skip and retrive the box. The compacter is powered by 415v. I tried to put my foot down and forbid that any memeber of staff enter the skip, however management got thier way and staff entred the skip,(after obviously isolating the power and pushing the emergency stop button). The box of doccuments could not be found, so mangement asked "can the company that take the compactor empty the skip on the car park", i informed him that the skip holds over 4.5 tons worth of waste and thier is environmental, food hygiene and safety implications if this happened. A memeber of staff accompanied the waste compactor to the local council tip (on his own, so obviously a lone worker), were the rubbish was sorted through and the box was eventually found. For all the above activites H&S was not considered once, i know this because i have not seen one risk assessment/safe system of work etc. Obviously as a safety practioner i am appalled at senior managements attitude over this, however insted of jumping in with 2 feet and "discussing"(usualy loudly) with management, i want to blind them with science in our weekly management meeting. As such could you help me with the following queries. - Even though the eletrical power was isolated & the emergency cut off switch activated, is there any risk of the being stored electrical power in the compactor causing the moving parts to activate and cause serious harm to staff? - Do you know of any incidents that have happened when anyone has been injured climbing into a compactor. If yes how bad was the injuries and was the offending company prosecuted. - Do you know of any incidents were people have been injured at tips, how bad was the injuries and was the offending company prosecuted - Any horror stories about lone working. Your help is greatly apprecaited. Gaz

Posted By Jason Touraine I too am not familiar with the process. But I wonder if you are approaching this from the right angle. You have started from the position that you must not permit the activity and now you want to justify that position. Instead why not try and think how you can enable management to achieve their objectives (ie retrieve the 'classified' documents). Have you considered how (or possibly whether) it could be done safely; what controls need to be introduced? I would have thought it likely a method could be devised although it may be that the cost of the controls would be prohibitive but that would be a decision for your managers (how much do they -and the clients- want to get the documents back). I find the automatic 'you can't do that approach depressing'; let's try the 'how can I help you do it safely' approach.

Posted By Philip McAleenan Gaz, To answer some of your questions: 1. There is always the possibility of residual energy in the equipment. Electrical energy needs to be discharged, and can usually be achieved by turning the equipment on in the normal manner. This will discharge any residual power and at the same time prove your isolation. But remember there is always and energy source in the mechanical components of the compactor and if these are not blocked or propped-up and then locked off, they have the potential to move under the force of e.g. gravity. And again you also have the vast energy source behind 4.5 tons of waste that cannot be safely secured against movement. If this were to slip then your workers would be engulfed with potentially fatal consequences. 2. You have described isolation. This in itself will not guarantee the security of the operation and the safety of the workers inside the compactor. You need to ensure that you have a proper lockout and tag procedure in place, that the workers are trained in its application and that it is correctly applied before any work commences. However, given what Raymond and I have said about the hazards of waste, you still have an unsafe environment within the compactor into which no one should be sent. (Note also that use of the emergency stop button is not a correct means of controlling the security of the isolation). 3. During research some years ago I came across some rather gruesome photographs of compactor incidents, I cannot remember where, but the result of the accident was decapitation. I do not recall whether the company was prosecuted. However, the option to prosecute a company for failing to provide a safe place of work and to competently manage work operations is taken on the basis of the statutes then in force and the outcomes of the accident investigation, and not on whether this type of incident had been previously prosecuted. 4. Regarding lone working, I am aware of an incident when a worker entered a confined space unbeknownst to anyone else and accidentally locked himself inside. He was found some hours later and was lucky to have survived the incident. Oxygen levels were very low and the atmosphere was full of exhaust fume. I hope that these comments help. Regards, Philip

Posted By Ken Taylor I can recall incidents ranging from amputation of an arm to death - but not the details. The correct procedure for recovery (as has been carried out before on a number of occasions) involves emptying at a safe location and search by trained persons using the correct PPE. This seems to be what happened eventually and with success (Qed).

Posted By David J Bristow Gaz Have emailed you direct about an incident (personal) which happended in HULL 1996 Regards David B

Posted By Nigel Singleton BSc Hi Gaz Try HSE cases site http://www.hse.gov.uk/pr....asp?SF=CN&SV=F090000333 I know its not going into a skip, but it was a fall from a skip, close enough? Regards Nigel