Posted By Mike John Jones What is the 'norm' when you have contractors on site that are performing daily work that is categorised as work permit type works and the length of the contract can run into weeks, do you feel that the one general permit linked to excavation etc is sufficient, it seems a mega job to keep issuing them, I am referring to ground works that are going to take months to complete, I actively monitor the works on a daily basis, do you feel this is sufficient? Any reactive advice greatly appreciated!

Posted By Laurie I used to issue a new permit once a week. If nothing else it made sure that standards didn't slip (including mine!) since they knew I was fully involved. If it's a really long project you could go to monthly Laurie

Posted By Stuart Nagle Mike. A permit to work for excavation works is a fairly new joiner to the traditional permits to work, only having been around for about 10 years or so to my knowledge. Excavations can pose all kinds of problems, based on the type of excavation being undertaken (hand, machine or mixture of both), what the ground type (chalk, clays, soft sands/silt etc) is, how deep (and how wide/long) the excavation will be, what lays in the ground (e.g. buried underground services, contamination from previous use land use etc) and what the weather conditions are (rain, freezing conditions, hot weather etc). Personally, I would base the issue of a permit to work on a decision (risk assessment) based on all of these factors, and also the competency of the persons undertaking the work, and additionally what type of work is being undertaken. Freezing of pipes on a water main to install a new valve or make a repair in an excavation may be of considerably higher risk than, for example, installing a ready made cess tank or excavating for a water service pipe, as additionally hazards are introduced by the work itself, not just the excavation. However, all conditions as mentioned above should be used to weight your decision. Normally, permits to work should not be issued for a period longer than a job will take or a shift of work (e.g. maxiumum 8 hours), whichever is the longer. For other high risk tasks this may be even more limited and involve lesser working times and change-over of persons undertaking the work ect. Something else you might want to consider! If, in your case you can justify issuing a permit to work for longer periods on a health and safety basis, following your assessment, fine.... just don't fall into the trap of issuing permits for longer periods just because writing them is a bore or a task you don't cherish!! .... This can be a domino that if it falls can lead to accidents or worse!!... it's all to easy to die in a hole in the ground if you are not working safely. In addition to the issue of permits to work, ensuring that persons are competent and that the safe systems of work (e.g. CAT and Genny use, location of buried underground services by hand excavation, protection and support of existing services where exposed and correct trench support are things that must be followed), as well as removal of spoil so as not to overburden trenches and prevention of plant, equipment and vehicles from edges of trenches to prevent trench collapse is also vital. Further to this, regular and routine monitoring and inspection of the works, as well as trench supporting structures is necessary (and maintenance of records of inspections) for excavation works of the type where such equipment is employed. Hope this provides a little more insight for you... Regards Stuart Nagle

Posted By Terry Smyth Mike I had this problem also, regarding constant issuing of PTW certificates, my solution was to liaise with the contract Planning Supervisor and establish if the contract came under the CDM Regs. If the contract did come under CDM Regs then there was no need to issue any permit to work. Smaller contracts outside this remit were issued with a permit to work for the estimated duration of the contract. Additional specific permits were also issued in respect of Confined Spaces and Hot Work, only when it was established that the contract fell within the CDM Regs or when the contract was of short duration, then a PTW was issued. Specific permits could not be issued without one or the other being in place. Such specific permits were issued on a time factor of 4 working hours and renewed after consultation of progress with contractors. I hope this is of help. Regards Terry

Posted By Mike John Jones Thanks very much for all the suggestions and general advice, I very much appreciate it, I guess its a conflicting subject after all!