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Posted By Nigel Thomas Hi Folks Can anyone e-mail me an example of a fire risk assessment form. Many Thanks in anticipation. n.thomas@macmillan.co.uk
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Posted By Philip Roberts
Nigel,
form on its way via e-mail
regards
Phil
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Posted By Steven
E-mailed you direct
steve
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Posted By jack rumbol
Being cheeky here but any chance of a cop of the example fire risk assessment form as well, i do have one but seems far to simple
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Posted By shaun mckeever Nigel I am pleased that you have received a positive response however I am a little dismayed that so many are prepared to offer fire risk assessment forms yet I have posted a number of fire risk assessment questions on this forum with little response. This suggests that when faced with real fire risk assessment issues people who are claiming to be able to do fire risk assessments cannot actually do them. Can I request that those who have submitted forms have a go at answering the latest question I posted:- http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...m=1&thread=22489&page=41
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Posted By Ashley Wood
I am amazed also with this. I have to say that you should ask yourselves the question 'am i a competent person' to carry out a fire risk assessment. If you cannot grasp what needs to be done to produce the correct form, then the question has to be asked! Also, a fire risk assessment is not just about completing a form, its about being able to identify deficiencies and to act on these. I would not dream of calling myself a H&S specialist and would seek advice from someone who is competent, even though I could locate a form to do a safety risk assessment. What makes fire safety any different? is it professional to rely on a form down loaded from a chat room? who's to say it is sufficient in the eyes of the enforcing officers? When an enforcing officer asks to see your fire risk assessment report he will expect to be able to see a logical approach being demonstrated and will want to be able to say to him or her self 'yes, I can see the logic and rational behind this and that statement,' if the enforcing officer can't then they will deem it to be insufficient. It is not acceptable to just tick boxes or say 'yes' when a form asks 'are there fire appliances'. what condition are they in, are they suitable for the risk, are they mounted at the correct height, are they the correct colour, is there a sign above detailing the type and what it may be used on etc etc. This logical thought process needs to adopted for everything from extinguishers to means of escape, from signa to record keeping to structural integrity to prevent flame and smoke spread. the 1st October is just a couple of weeks away, why has this not been done before now?
I am now stepping down from my soap box..
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Posted By Is Kismet
"This suggests that when faced with real fire risk assessment issues people who are claiming to be able to do fire risk assessments cannot actually do them."
That's a very harsh judgement. Perhaps they just need a little help.
Remind me again, isn't that what this forum is for? For help?
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Posted By shaun mckeever
That is the point Kismet, I have posted some real life problems that I have come across when carrying out fire risk assessments. The responses to the problems have been very poor. So no real help!
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Posted By sagalout
I am with Is on this one. To take the points raised and turn them around, how can one competently assess the intent, experience or anything else about the person making the request? As you say it is easy to assume, miss or underestimate with little knowledge. One may be a fully competent person but would still like to see if any "colleagues" have saved me some work. Perhaps they even have a better solution to the matter that we both understand. I only mention this as a different angle on why people sometimes ask.
Personally, I would not consider myself a competent person if I did not at least explore a change in H&S to the point that I realised that I needed specialist help. Just like my GP really, she knows enough to keep me healthy most of the time but every so often she says "hang on let's check". Or my solicitor who passes me on when the legal area has been established outside his expertise.
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Posted By Is Kismet
Shaun, you already know the answers to the questions you pose - anyone trawling through this forum and see that.
I suggest you let others less knowledgable than yourself ask questions or for help, without the criticism.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Sagalout you raise some important and relevant issues.
The reason I started posting fire risk assessment questions is because I was called in to deal with a serious issue that was overlooked by the orginal assessor. In the particular case the fire risk assessor was RSP. It was a very serious issue which could have resulted in a prohibition notice. When I phoned the original assessor to discuss his assessment he could not see the problem. The assessor did not recognise his own limitations. To me it raised concerns that some H&S consultants beleive they know how to assess the risk from fire but knowledge is a little thin on the ground.
The issue has repeated itself again just recently when a fire authority issued an improvement notice for a fire risk assessment that was not considered 'suitable and sufficient'. On this occasion the assessor failed to recognise the impact of an additional kiosk within a shopping centre and the effect it would have on the sprinkler system and smoke control system.
I have posted some fire related questions about real issues that I have come across. These are issues that anyone undertaking a fire risk assessment might come across. The first thing that an assessor must be able to do is recognise the problem. The next step is to identify potential solutions without, for example, referrring back to the fire service for help or proposing ridiculously expensive solutions. The solutions have to be realistic and achievable.
This forum is fantastic for generating debate. It is a great place for exchanging ideas and bouncing ideas off other people. Unfortunately this does not happen very well with fire risk assessment issues.
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Posted By Is Kismet
"It is a great place for exchanging ideas and bouncing ideas off other people."
Agreed, but only if people are allowed to ask questions and provide reasonable practical and/or sourced answers without undue criticism.
You've rushed in with both guns blazing, yet a better response would have been to try and help by suggesting some sources of reference.
Is
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Is, you will also see that wherever I can I try to provide helpful answers to anyone about fire safety issues.
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Posted By sagalout
Shaun, thanks for the response. I empathise with your concerns about a specialist subject, I really, really do. It is not jsut fire. With an engineering background, I understand the physics (or should that be chemistry) and the basic approaches of containment and protection but I would guess that you are more competent than I.
It is an issue with the many specialist areas that we bump into or trip over when working as H&S professionals. Hence my analogy of the GP: competent, professional, skilled, some areas of specialised knowledge but really skilled at sorting the "sick notes", sneezes, coughs, colds, back pain, on-going maintenance post treatment; and would clearly know much better than Joe Public what to do if I had a heart attack in the surgery. But brain surgery, heart surgery, orthopeadics, psychological treatment etc etc. No way!
Keep up the good work,
is it possible to set the world on fire over fire safety?(chuckle)
Pete
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Posted By Zaphod
If every risk assessment (fire, manual handling, COSHH, DSE etc etc) had to be completed by 'Specialists' then there would be very few risk assessments about. I think we have to be pragmatic about this. As an Occupational Hygienist, I used to have a similar view about COSHH to the view that many fire specialists have about fire risk assessments. In the early 90's when I worked for consultancies, I was very proud of producing intrecate COSHH manuals for clients. The problem was that no-one ever read or used them!!
Now days, I see it as my role in a multisite organisation that employees 1500 staff to produce forms and guidance that are easy to use and effective - by all staff. If you keep H&S seperate - within the domain of 'specialists' how are you going to generate a positive H&S culture?
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Posted By Is Kismet
Ashley, a question.
Two people work in a portacabin in a yard, and separated from other buildings by approx 25m. There are occasional visitors.
From your response it indicates that only a specialist fire risk assessor could possible effectively and adequately fire risk assess this portacabin. Have I understood you correctly?
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Is Kismet - are you referring to the incident where there was a failure to adequately fire risk assess a couple of portacabins near a railway line? The one that caused the railway line to be shutdown for 24 hours because there were acetylene cylinders behind the portacabin.
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Posted By Ian P
The question of who is competent to be a fire risk assessor was raised at a meeting I attended, the answer from a senior fire officer on secondment to help deal with the new fire act was that the only way to answer that would be after case law had been established.
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Posted By dangermouse For those of you interested, i have been pointed to this site by our local fire authority, i hope it helps http://www.lincolnshire..../section.asp?docId=27483it would seem that several of the fire authorities from other counties like the lincs one, i spoke to someone in essex and cambridge and both pointed me to the same address.
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Posted By NLR Philip, Sorry to jump late on this particular bandwagon, but could you send me a copy to. Cheers Nigel aaasem1@aol.com
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Posted By Safetynut There is free comphrehensive fire risk assessment download on this site which includes PEEP, maintenace schedules etc. www.centralsafetyconsultancy.co.uk
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Posted By Ken Taylor
I've been in health, safety and fire prevention for more years than I can remember - but have always found check-lists and aides memoire useful in concentrating the mind in my approach to a situation.
Unfortunately some fire risk assessment forms have been little more than tick-box type lists of fire hazards (and not always comprehensive at that). In fire risk assessment, it is important to ensure that fire hazards, fire prevention, fire protection, fire extinguishment, fire action, fire information and training, etc are all addressed and that information is recorded together with any required additional control measures.
This all makes it necessary to understand the nature, causes and spread of fire and something of the construction of buildings and their services, etc - in addition to necessary aspects of the work activities, plant, equipment, etc present.
For some of those charged with carrying out these assessments, some additional training may well be needed.
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Posted By Nigel Cannings Hi Folks Can anyone e-mail me an example of a fire risk assessment form. Many Thanks in anticipation Nigel. nigel_cannings@hotmail.com
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Posted By GJB
Damn!!
I wish I was as clever as you lot is!
These forums are beginnng to become a laughing stock!
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Posted By Is Kismet
Why's that GJB, please explain?
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Posted By sagalout
Laughing Stock? A judgemental comment perhaps. A tortuous thread, no doubt if viewed from a real world. For a forum, just pretty average. The internet makes it easy to communicate but does little to focus what we chatter about.
Origin. Have anyone got a fire risk assessment?
1. Yes sent
2. Yes sent
3. me too please
4. me too please
5. remember the guidelines available with a link
6. me too please
7. do you understand this subject, competence in subject area
8. I agree
9. questions the judgement in 7
10. defence of 7
11. support for 9
12. questions judgement of 9
13. response extending 7
14. rebuff for 13
15. defence against 14
16. return to issue of competence
17. response to 16 but disagreeing
18. me too please again
19. short challenge exchange
20. response to 19
21. comment about fire brigade view of competence
22. info on a website re the original question
23. ME TOO PLEASE AGAIN
24. link to website with free download FRA
25. new support for the specialist view
26. me too please
27. me too please
28. question about the forum becoming a laughing stock
29. please justify 28
30. Totally off the wall summary. response to 28
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Posted By Ian Lee
I work in a College environment and I'm looking to improve the documentation we have so would also appreciate any Fire risk assessment forms please.
Ian
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Posted By GJB
Jeez! I love it! Fair play to you... it must have taken ages to go through that lot and have to read them all for a second time, Saga??
My point about the Laughing stock was of course, misinterpreted (So what's new on these forums)!!
My comment was directed not at the serious nature of Fire Risk Assessment forms, which was a good, sound thread... It was directed at those people out there, and you know who you are, who just have that edge of superiority. No 'Club' culture? Yeah, right!
Take care all!
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Posted By shaun mckeever
I guess you are referring to me then GJB
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Posted By Is Kismet
What was misinterpreted?
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Posted By LIM BOON KHOON Can I also ask for a copy of the form please ? My e-mail is helpc@helpc.com.sgThank you very much
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Posted By Fish
Does anyone have example forms to use for fire risk assessment which will comply with the latest regulatory reform order?
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Posted By Fish Does anyone have example forms to use for fire risk assessment which will comply with the latest regulatory reform order? jonathan.fisher@brighton.ac.uk
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Posted By Stanley Ikeh I have read through all contributors about this R/S.Much to my credit. Please I would love a copy too Robert, Steven and Wood. Thanks for you contributions and wealth of knowlege. MY Mail is stanstanunited@hotmail.com unitedstanley@gmail.com.
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