Posted By Hugo Hi All, Can anyone give advice on the going rate of a Fire Risk Assessment for a small 2 storey office. Is it size, complexity or time based for pricing..has the size of the company/consultancy inspecting relevant? nice1_66@yahoo.com Thanks.

Posted By pluto Crim, That is a shocking rate c. £27 an hour! You are, (I assume), a professional and as such should be charging substantially more than that. You are rating your skills at less than a car mechanic and certainly less than a bricklayer. How do you cover insurance, tax, provision of vehicle and sundries, professional advice, membership fees advertising, etc I do not carry out commercial fire risk assessments and shall not be starting if that is the best the market will stand.

Posted By stevehaigh THIS WOULD TAKE APPROX 6 HOURS FROM START TO FINISH AND I WOULD BE CHARGING APPROX £299 FOR THE ASSESSMENT - REPORT - EXPENSES- PLUS ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION DEEMED NECESSARY

Posted By 9-Ship Although in a slightly different context - when I got divorced, I was charged £110 per hour by a Legal Executive, who was supervised by a solicitor (£190/hr). So using this as a yardstick, depending upon your level of experience/safety qualifications how about Tech SP £60/hr MIOSH £90/hr CMIOSH £120/hr This obviously includes office overheads etc, but I would still charge travelling/hotel costs on top of these figures. No I am not a consultant (anymore) - now into process engineering safety which pays far better than routine commercial safety consultancy.

Posted By Crim I charge what I believe is the correct rate for the job, I'm sure everyone can justify their rates, even those who charge a lot higher than myself. I received advice two years ago and was advised to charge over £30. per hour, the problem is my Clients don't want to pay those high fees. They place more importance on the bricklayer and plumber than on health and safety! I am, however gradually increasing my fees and will eventually get there. I am self employed and work from home therefore no high overheads. I visited a construction site yesterday and will charge my hourly rate for three hours, including travel to/from site. That's a lot less than Hugo is being charged at present. Hugo, can I ask if your enquiry is for you to decide on a rate for you to carry out a fire risk assessment, or is it to get a figure in mind to pay a consultant?

Posted By Hugo Crim, The inquiry for the pricing was for myself in order to place a figure on a couple of inspection I have completed. I come from an operational firefighting background with the routine statutory inspections as a responsibility. I just didn't wish to pick a figure from the clouds. I think Shaun's approach to pricing is workable and I was almost settled on £395 for a.m. 4 hours and £60 per hour thereafter on the same visit or £395 for a basic shop/office inspection, I have not really looked towards residential homes or hotels yet but would probably use a decreasing scale if it was more timely, any ideas on that?

Posted By GARRY WIZZ Not so bad, at £600 a day, with 20 days work during the month, that would cover my living costs. Time to change jobs Best of luck to you all. Garry

Posted By 9-Ship I'm staggered £256 for 8.5hrs work. WHen are safety peoplegoing to star valuing themselves properly. Thats about £30/hr. Your average plumber/gas fitter, I guess is probably charging £35 / hr or so (I have not used one for a while, so this may well be wrong - probably more) Sure take into account, your experience/qualification when setting your rate, but why should a one-man consultancy/small consultancy charge less than a large consultancy. Apart from being a little cheaper to get the work in the first place. If a large consultancy charges you out at say £50/hr it doesn't follow that a small concultancy/one man consultancy should charge down at £20-30hr. More like £40/hr. Nobody is running a charity - its business, and you are providing a professional service in line with the figures I suggested in my 1st post on this thread. Now you can see why I got out of general safety - the pay is poor.

Posted By stevehaigh Agreed I went to the dentist yesterday for a simple 10 minute assessment by the hygienist. I walked out £26 lighter equates to £156 an hour!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By Peter Leese As a consultant working from home my expenses for the last tax year were just under £16K - slightly raised from the norm as I replaced my noise meter. In other words, before anything else I have to cover £16K costs. So using the generally accepted formula of 200 paying working days per year, it costs £80 a day to stand still. How can associates be doing this all properly on £125 (or even £250)a day?

Posted By Alexis B I'm in Leeds Crim. Regeneration money money money and say anything to get the business. I found a sales guy following me around offering to do the work for half the price. I found out when a prospect sent him away with a flea in his ear. Unfortunately he then contacted the financial director. Alexis

Posted By Jean This is making interesting reading. I had my hair highlighted, cut and blown dry on Saturday, the cost if I had had to pay for it would have been £90. As I provide health and safety advice to this hairdresser it cost me nothing. It took about 2 hours. (Battering of services) I had to visit a solicitor recently, the cost was £178 + vat per hour. Due to my specialist knowledge he suggested that I should do the work myself. Go back and see him if I felt I needed his expertise. I can't help but think, if you charge peanuts, you're viewed as only deserving peanuts. In this part of the world the average charges appear to be between £350 -£500 per 6 hour day. Crim, I think you might be an ex fireofficer. Do you have a pension, and does this influence your decision to accept such a low rate?

Posted By 9-Ship Given that £5/hr = approx £10k year, then obviously if you want to earn £30k yr, then you need to be charging out at £15/hr as a minimum + overheads e.g. office costs, travel, hotels etc. Even £30k per year is not in my opinion a particulary good salary anymore. I know what the going rate is in the petro-chem/safety engineering consultancy side of things is - and its far more than this - more like £25-35/hr as a minimum and that is as 'employed' status, with out the hassle/costs of running & generating your own clients/business etc. Unless your are particularly successful/lucky, as I have hinted at earlier and afraid to say, because the consultancy market is fairly swamped the going rate for general commercial/industrial safety will always be poor. Either be lucky and get sufficient clients to drive your own costs down/improve your cash flow or specialise in to niche areas of consultancy/safety e.g. SIL assessments, nuclear, petro-chem etc etc. Even if you have a good service pension, from being say an ex-fireman, it still seems rather stupid to charge a low rate, you are effectively using your pension to subsidise someone elses business... Your pension is yours from previous work, and nothing to do with anyone else - surely you should be aiming to generate the best income now and not rely on past glories?

Posted By shaun mckeever Crim if you are charging a low rate one might assume that you are fully booked. Surely in those circumstances supply and demand comes in. If there is a significant demand on your time then then you start putting your prices up. You will soon know you are charging too much because nobody will be seeking your services. Of course the more expensiv e end of the market I would expect to be very, very good. That is what clients are paying for. I find it is often folly to go for the cheapest. You tend to get what you pay for.

Posted By DJ Ladies and Gents, I think these threads show why, in my case, after 3 years of full-time study, two years professional probation and 15 years practical experience, I am struggling to earn a decent living. Everytime I tender for work, somebody comes in with an extremely low-charge out rate that cannot do them or anybody else any favours. I charge a mere £55.00 per hour with travel at 40p per mile and I lose more jobs than I win because somebody will work for less. Regards. DJ.

Posted By 9-Ship Using the earlier figures mentioned by others, I would estimate the following £256 for 8.5hrs work = £30hr - note does not include allowance for business overheads etc If using the probably optimistic figures of 200 days paid consulting days per year, would yield the following theoretical income for a 1 man consultancy. Based on a 7.5hr day = 200 x 7.5 = 1500hrs per year. 1500 x £30 = £45176 generated However less business costs of about £16k = £31k salary. If the £16k costs doesn't include travelling/vehicle costs then these costs also need taking off, if not charged to your client. Also remember there will be 'dead' days, making sales visits etc that ultimately yield nothing if the sale isn't successful, preparation time for sales meetings/drafting quotes, meeting accountants etc - all time/days that have to be paid for out of actual paid days. Ultimately, unless you do consider yourself to be partly retired etc, at these rates, you might as well get a job paying £35k or so and save yourself the hassle of running a business. As with my previous postings, in the higher risk industries, it is quite easy to exceed these rates. I certainly do, and I am no where near being paid the top rates available in safety engineering, for the high hazard industries. All food for thought....do you new kids, really want to go self-employed / want to change to the safety industry. Don't get me wrong, I am not rejecting self-employment, just that it has got to be worth the effort. To be paid less than an employed job, whats the point? In my view, unless being self-employed generates an income of at least 1.5 times a standard safety job e.g. circa £45k salary (after business costs etc) then I would conclude the benefits are marginal. In reality I would be looking for a self employed salary 2-3 times a typical general commercial safety salary before considering it. Assuming a typical safety salary is £30k, this means a self employed salary in the region of £50 - 60k. Once costs etc are added in, then your sales need to be in the region of £80k. Therefore at 1500paid hrs year = an hourly rate of 80k/1500 = £53hr is required. So some of the other figures of about £50 hr seem about right and also inline with my earlier suggestions compared to other trades etc.

Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy I am ashamed to be associated with the above discussion Please refrain from using this forum for anything other than safety, its not a Bank of England forum.

Posted By Peter Leese 9-ship My £16K includes travel etc, for the rest, I don't think you are too far away. Of course one other advantage is the relative freedom in setting your own hours and days of work.

Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy No doubt many of you have found this topic to be informative and interesting, me too for that matter. The problem, as I have stated before on many occasions is that safety discussions that involve cost and/or litigation issues serve no good purpose and give safety professionals a bad name. The service I offer does indeed come at a price, and my expertise has a worth. However my professional etiquette and ability to perform stand aside from cost issues. My question to anybody conducting a fire risk assessment is not how much you can earn but have you contributed to a safe system and can you walk away satisfied that you have contributed to an improvement in working conditions for people in your industry.

Posted By mark limon Tony,I think it is a well rounded informative discussion.Those that are considering a freelance career may be more or less likely to go for it.However it gives an indication of the financial rewards available There are few people who can afford to be in a career for the good of everyone else.Most have families to house and feed so financial rewards are important. I would much rather be concentrating on the assessment Im doing than thinking about whether or not I can pay my mortgage.