Posted By Mark Duff
As a fairly new forum user I have seen several threads on smoking and the arguments for and against the smoking ban. As a smoker I find the ban an inconvenience but accept the argument and therefore stand outside in the wind and rain to get my fix.

What I can't understand is why I am victimised for smoking when alcohol is so readily accepted.

I would challenge anyone to prove that more people are harmed by passive smoking than by the effects of alcohol.

With large numbers of deaths attributed to drink driving, drink induced violence and anti-social behaviour why do we not only accept alcohol, but positively promote and advertise it.

Don't get me wrong, I like a drink as well and do not seek a ban, but who decided that smoking was more hazardous and required such strict controls.

Why do I feel that public health is not the key objective of the legislators?

Duffer

Posted By John Murgatroyd
We accept it because in most people its use does not lead to any problems.
Drink driving is, with small amounts, socially unacceptable. In large amounts, illegal.
Drink induced violence is illegal.
Anti-social behaviour is unacceptable, and in many cases illegal.
Smoking is not illegal. It is only illegal to smoke inside workplaces. A health and safety measure to protect those who do not smoke from the (at least) unpleasant smell, and (at worst) supposed adverse effects on health.
The smoking legislation, while working in premises, is widely ignored in "mobile workplaces".

Posted By Rob Randall
Mark does actually have a point. Drinking alcohol is every bit as bad for you as smoking and it is not only the drinker who is affected but the his or her immediate family and the whole of society.

I think the only reason that it is regarded as acceptable is because the majority of people drink and they therefore want to protect their "right" to do so. This is much like the situation with tobacco smoking 20 years ago. In those days if you complained or thought smoking was unhealthy you were regarded as a pariah by the vast majority who were smokers.

With the well known damage that binge drinking is doing to those who indulge, and the cost in human and financial terms, perhaps the writing is on the wall for so-called "social drinking"?

Regards,

Bob R

Posted By Merv Newman
I'll leave the active/passive smoking debate to one side for the moment. I think my views are known.

However, drinking in the workplace or during working hours has been a subject of debate for many years. It just doesn't get much publicity, there are no laws against it (are there), and the fight is usually carried on by individual employers.

An early memory is of some American companies banning alcohol during working hours after noticing a few really horrendous contracts signed after "liquid" lunches. (could they lead to liquidation ?) (nothing to do with H&S at the time)

Translate this into English and you can go out to lunch for a pub meal but you can't have a beer with it.

European countries often supply cheap or even free wine and/or beer in works canteens. (choices, quantities, prices often set by the works Sports and Sexual Club and thus difficult to alter the practice) While the quantities sold per person can be limited at the POS some employees sell-on their ration to the more needy.

Some companies do manage to ban alcohol, usually after (as in safety) an accident or incident happens. One site I knew used to pay for the wine at retirement parties, held in the canteen. One day two supervisors fell down the steps. No injuries (I understand they were quite relaxed, if not a bit giggly. Result: an alcohol free site. (in theory. No one checks the snaps)

Some Mediterranean companies supply barrels of free wine in the workshops. (better than drinking the water I suppose.

As has been found in the cases of obesity, drinking and fast driving, exhortation, counseling and advice are all pretty useless. Controlling drinking (should you wish to accept this mission impossible ) Would require legislation or, at the very least, a change in company policies. (understanding that this policy is first for the health of the board of Directors, second for the health of the company, and next for the H&S of employees)

Passive drinking. If I ask someone to pour a pint of beer down my trousers, can one measure how much alcohol would be absorbed or would the difference be statistically insignificant compared to the load I had already (probably) taken on board ? And could I really be recognised as "passive" when I invited the action (as do those who go into a smoking shelter and complain of the smell)?

Merv

Posted By Colin Reeves
Oh, same Act covers aviation as well.

Colin

Posted By Lilian McCartney
Hi Merv,

Sorry not being picky but amused at Sport and Sexual Club.

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beer holder!

We work with people in their own homes. We have a no drink policy on site or 'smelling' of drink whilst at work.

This is extended to the office workers as its a rule for all.

I guess a lot of us give alcohol too much consideration and not enough at the same time. With common sayings like 'have a drink' you couldn't have enjoyed yourself if you weren't drunk. It can be quite a social problem and is one which is difficult to answer.

Lilian

Posted By alan noble
By coincidence this week is Alcohol Awareness Week (21-27 October 2007. One of the themes is "Does your drinking add up?" which is trying to make the drinker key into the amount of units of alcohol they are consuming. More info can be obtained at www.alcoholawarenessweek.com.

Posted By Kevin Drum
I have the pleasure of living in Scotland where we have had the smoking ban in force longer and I wholeheartedly welcomed it.

I was not often affected by drinking in public places, perhaps the odd annoying drunk but every time I was in a place surrounded by smokers I was made to breath in what they contaminated the atmosphere with. It was a joke how the space between a eating area and smoking area was often juat a room divider. Drinkers only contaminate and affect their own health.

It also meant my children were subjected to the same contamination.

I have also worked in bars subjected to others smoke for 8 hours at a time.

So afraid the sight of people huddled outside pubs or workplaces in the pouring rain gets zero sympathy from me.