Posted By JHiller Hi Can anyone help. I have checked all the legislation and ACOPS and nothing tell me for sheltered housing where there is no one managing the property after 5pm what detection unit should be installed. At the moment all flats have a fire detection unit that is linked to the main board. WHen a tenant burns their toast the alarm for the whole building goes off and residents automatically call the fire brigade. Does anyone know if we can disconnect the fire detection units from the tenants accomodation and replace them with units that only go off in the tenants flats. It will be their responsibility to call Invicta or the fire brigade if it is a real fire. where do I stand legally? Thanks

Posted By Adrian Watson Ashley, Where does it state that a full BS5839 part 1 2002 L1 system with automatic fire service link via a call centre is required in a sheltered scheme? Additionally what are the relevant breaches of the RR(FS)O? Regards Adrian Watson

Posted By Ashley Wood As I said, do the flats open on to an enclosed corridor? If this is that type of scheme then the recommendation is for a system that will provide the highest level of life safety. This is detailed within BS 5839 part 1 2002, 8.1.2 section 2 page 17 second to last paragraph. It is also recommended that if the occupants of the building are vulnerable then an automatic means for emergency service alert should be considered. I know 'considered' does not mean 'must' and recommendations are just that, a recommendation. Within the sleeping guide RR(FS)O page 55 refers to an L2 system but read note 2. Page 56 backs up what I said about false alarms. To be able to disconnect the flats alarms from the main system would require absolute confidence that the passive construction measures for that building are 100% i.e no holes in walls, correct standard of fire linings, no letter boxes in flats doors, flat doors fire resistant etc etc. If a fire should occur within a flat after the detector has been disconnected from the main system and the occupant is overcome and can not alert others or call the fire service, what then? Multiple deaths. Most people do not realise that the detector within the fire effected flat is there not to protect the person living in the flat but to alert the other occupants within the building to enable them to escape. this is the same in hotel rooms. So if you consider this in in this light then the others are at risk by the disconnection of the detector from the main system. trust me on this, you will have a very difficult time convincing the fire service that disconnection of the flats detectors is the correct way of solving the false alarm activations. Also, if no warden is on site at night and the alarm goes off again they will expect to see a monitored alarm link to a central station/centre. The people who are now tenants within sheltered schemes are older then the schemes were ever intended, and as such suffer frailty, immobility, deafness, dementia etc. In a lot of cases they deserve proper residential care rather than housing in a sheltered scheme. I comment on this because they need a higher level of fire safety then before, not a reduction. Finally, would the folks who have questioned my previous answer be able to stand up in court and say that they did all they could to protect the persons that the RR(FS)O is most aimed at protecting - the vulnerable? Off my soap box and over to you : - )

Posted By Kevin dilworth you can have the alarm go off in the flat by having a full evec delay put into the program....the cause of the alarm can then be investigated by the tenant... if the alarm in the flat is not silenced after a set time (5 mins) then the alarm goes into full evec.. all new apartment blocks shopping centres court buildings etc have this system in place