Posted By Jean
Hi Robert

While I don't know the answer to your queary, can I suggest that you ring the HSE and get the response from the horse's mouth. That way you could feedback to the rest of us who don't know the answer either.

Jean

Posted By CFT
Can you let us know please Bob?

CFT

Posted By Gerry Marchant
Dav

the recruitment one is what occured to us last year....didn't twig until I got a call from two of our site managers claiming they had been called from an agency, didn't give name but it was within hours of me giving this 'HSE caller' site details

Gerry

Posted By MAK
oh and one more thing, if you call infoline with a query that they cannot answer, then the next question invariably is, where is the area your call relates to? This so that they can then refer you the HSE office in that area.

So would they make more admin work for themselves by making one central point for F10's which might be required to be sent out to another office?

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Further update Paul Tams has responded to my email and has copied my request to Nic Rigby, Eleri James and others.

We await verification that this is not a scam. Headers still match.

Bob

Posted By Brett Day

I did notice this on the previous page: https://www.hse.gov.uk/forms/notification/



"Further information

Please note that the online F10 notification form has been temporarily removed. The version currently available must be printed, completed manually and sent by post to HSE. We apologise for this inconvenience. A new replacement interactive form will shortly be available."

So an all electronic form on the way ??

Posted By Robert K Lewis
I have it on their authority that you can continue using the old version if you wish so the objective they desired is defunct.

They also claim to have consulted widely on the new form - Anyone admit to it?

Bob

Posted By Mike
I note that mandatory fields are marked with an asterix ???? the Gaul no doubt!

Posted By Paul Woodard

The CDM2007 Regulations list the particulars which need to be notified to the enforcing authority. Therefore if the CDM-C writes what is required on a blank piece of paper and sends this to the enforcing authority then they are compliant with the Regulations. How the HSE decides to process the information from there onwards is entirely up to them.

Until legislation tells me to use a particular format I shall carry on using my own.

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Sorry to resurrect this but Paul Tams under instruction from senior persons at HSE has now emailed persons again concerning the F10. He is claiming that only this new form can be used. This is incorrect and contrary to legislation - Any form can be used providing it contains the relevant information - Do not pay attention to the misinformation in any email received. Eleri James, of HSE, has confirmed my views in writing. Copy available

Bob

Posted By Martyn Hendrie
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, I don't have access to the regs to check.

I thought there is no legal requirement to use the F10. Only to notify the prescribed information to the HSE.

If that is the case how can the HSE enforce an electronic only notification process?

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Martyn

Excuse the Saturday spelling of your name.

Jean

I have had some private emails on this as well and I think the root of the problem lies in an HSE decision to not publicise this posting of the form onto the internet until the electronic version was ready for June. If they have made a mess of this e-form like the current new version I dread to think of the problems.

The claimed consultees do not seem to know what is going on and one says it was a brief answer to a question at one meeting. Whoever prepared this form is not au fait with construction and as i said in an earlier post I look forward to notifying a house of 0 storey which is an offerred option or to tick Not Required as a type of work.

Personally we will not be using this form and will continue to use the one produced via our database. We only need to enter the information once and not many times by hand. At up to 100 notifications a month we do need to use time efficiently. Shame that the powers that be at Bootle do not recognise this.

This post will be most likely moderated out soon but I hope most do get a chance to read it. Are we in a position to defend organisations that have no sense of the real meaning of consultation and Working Well Together?

Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Peter

A road is a separate item and needs a separate form for notification - one type of work per form only is permitted. Do not forget that you can also have a house of 0 storey - will this be a street in your reckoning? :-)

Still it is good to know such people support WWT and many other campaigns encouraging a team approach to construction. Maybe it is a case of "don't do as we do, do as we say" syndrome. I personally am wonderingh if we will find out who has actually drafted the form and who is driving this forward so hard in spite of concerns which I think are being expressed in many quarters from what I have heard.

Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis
It must be just a roof otherwise it would have a storey.

Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Mitch

Been revised again since Friday I see wrt the signature box text. Very little else has changed and my original views still stand. The HSE have lost a lot of my respect over this fiasco. It is a little too late to start responding to comments from those in the industry when you have virtually ignored them up to this point.

It still adds many coats of bureaucracy and asks for inane information. Also how do I identify the primary type of work when many of the boxes can apply to one project.

Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Trouble is that the HSE would like to do that very thing of compulsion without a regulatory change.

Bob

Posted By Mitch
This response has been posted on the HSE Construction site with instructions that all notifications (in whatever form) should be sent to Bootle regardless of where the work is to take place.

HSE has received a number of queries (posted on this site and at HSE Infoline) regarding the introduction of the new F10 Form. I hope the following clears up any misunderstanding.

The position regarding notification of a construction project and signing and displaying the F10 form has not changed since 6 April 2007, when the Construction (Design and Management) Regulations came into force.

Notifying a Construction Project and Signing the F10 Form

1) Form F10 encompasses the particulars contained in Schedule 1 to the CDM 2007 Regulations, i.e those to be notified to HSE. The last of these is "A declaration signed by or on behalf of the client that he is aware of his duties under these Regulations." (See also paragraph 6 below.)

2) Ideally, the client (or someone from their organisation) would sign the F10 form. However, the crucial issue is that the client is aware of their duties under the Regulations. Notifiable construction projects require the appointment of a CDM Co-ordinator. Recognising the practicalities involved, and the fact that it is the Co-ordinator's duty to give the client suitable and sufficient advice and assistance to enable them to help them comply with their CDM 2007 duties, the Regulations actually place the notification duty on the CDM Co-ordinator.

3) It follows that in many instances the CDM Co-ordinator will be the person who signs the F10 form on behalf of the client. It is important to be aware, however, that regardless of who signs the F10 form, the client retains their CDM 2007 duties.

4) Any CDM Co-ordinator appointed for a particular project or projects should be competent to discharge their particular duties under CDM 2007. Their particulars will be given on the F10 notification, and it is their legal duty to notify HSE of the project and to make the client aware of their duties.

5) There is no CDM 2007 requirement for a separate letter of authorisation relating to completion of the F10 form (and, in HSE's view, this would fly in the face of one of the underlying principles of CDM 2007, i.e. the reduction of unnecessary bureaucracy).

6) HSE is planning to introduce an interactive electronic F10 form in June 2008. In the meantime, a downloadable F10 form is available on the HSE website at: https://www.hse.gov.uk/forms/notification/f10.pdf. Two declarations are provided on this form, i.e. one to be signed by the client if he/she completes the F10 form; and the other to be signed by the CDM co-ordinator if he/she completes the form. Each declaration is marked with an asterisk, and Box 15 on the form clearly states "(*delete as appropriate). It is not necessary for both the client and the CDM co-ordinator to sign the form.

7) For the time being, old-style F10 forms and the website version can be submitted to HSE, as systems have been put in place for processing both.

Displaying the project notification

8) The principal contractor's duty to display the project notification is contained in regulation 22 (k) of the CDM 2007 Regulations. It says:

"(k) ensure that the particulars required to be in the notice given under regulation 21 are displayed in a readable condition in a position where they can be read by any worker engaged in the construction work."

9) The ACoP also covers it (page 34, paragaph 150 (q)), where it states that it is the PC's duty to display the project notification.

10) A common-sense approach would be helpful by all concerned i.e. if the F10 is used to notify the project, the simplest thing to do would be to display that at the site - whether it is 2 pages long or 6. If some other means of notification is used, then display that. As stated in the Regulations, it is the required information that needs to be provided or displayed - not any particular form. The F10 is provided as a convenient aid to simplify matters. Once the new interactive electronic F10 form has been introduced (around June 2008), it will produce a suitable copy of the form to be displayed at the construction site.

Posted By Mitch
Try this one rocksteady

http://webcommunities.hs...showthread?threadid=9614

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Still the implication then that reg 21 and schedule 1 will be changed. All forms even old style F10 can be used LEGALLY and there is nothing the HSE can do to change this without regulatory change. I still think as I have said - Badly worded, badly constructed form without real idea of how construction works

Bob

Posted By Mitch
Politics again, where is the disrepute if it satisfactorily resolves the problems, surely that is what discussion is for?