Posted By Adams777 I have just completed NVQ Level 4 and was told by my Assessor (Course Provider employee) that the qualification is equivalent to a degree and that Level 5 was equivalent to a Masters Degree. I had the impression that he was trying to sign me up to get more money out of me. Was he joking or is this true?

Posted By Steve Cartwright Adams777 There may be some who think they are equivelant, however there are many who don't. I know some people who have done NVQ Level 4 Occupational Health and Safety in less than six months, and this was doing it part time. I'm currently studying for a degree (part time) and it is going to take me 6 years, 43 assignments and at least 5 exams. So you tell me if you think its the equivelant. Steve

Posted By mark limon There has been many debates on here about nvq4s,nebosh diploma and degrees and which is the best. I dont know but I do think you should be proud of your hard work in attaining this qualification,well done Adam ps 6 years for a degree,thats dedication good luck

Posted By James M Steve and CFT, are you comments from experience in that you have completed a diploma and NVQ4 or just snobbery? I have completed a diploma and NVQ4 and my opinion is that the diploma taught me a lot but mainly how to learn parrot fashion (a bit like my children doing their SATs) and the NVQ4 was about doing the job and proving that you could do it. The NVQ 4 was much more valuable to me.

Posted By Carl West Just on a side note, the HSE are advertising for inspectors and will accept the Diploma over the NVQ4 NVQ4 not good enough to be able to apply Now that is a status debate !!!!! Carl

Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke But they dont mention the NVQ 4 on that link. The NVQ 4 is a level 6 qualification. Regards Linda

Posted By Steve Cartwright Forgot to add I'm not knocking NVQ's. They do have their place and well done to those who pass them. The bit I can't get my head round is they are only any good if your already in the job. How does one get the knowledge if you are not in the job, and the other question that needs to be asked is how did you get the job in the first place if you did not have the knowledge? I must admit I've learnt a lot more about H&S whilst doing the job. However to get the job in the first place I had to prove I had the knowledge. I was lucky in that when I was studying I had a H&S Manager who was willing to pass on the benefit of his experience. However to say they are the equivelant of a Degree or the NEBOSH.

Posted By Jay Joshi We should not belittle the "vocational qualification" route for health & safety, which is currently the NVQ4 (&5). When the changes were made to in the NQF, the then existing NVQ's at level 4 & 5 were not revised, hence the anomoly in the numerical suffix and the new levels. I presume that this will n be changed when the next revision is undertaken. All "assessment" methods, be it formal exams or producing a portfolio of evidence has advantages & disadvantages. I for one simply do not agree that the "degree of difficulty" of passing a an examination is a true indication of the candidates knowledge or competence. Let us leave that to the experts. The reality is that through IOSH, those coming via the diploma/degree routes will have to produce a portfolio of evidence and those via the vocational route will have to give an exam, albeit open book--the operative term is IPD/CPD culminating in a peer review interview. I personally feel that due to the "problems" associated with lower level NVQ's , it is not fair to generalise it for all NVQ's. We should be proud that we have various routes to qualifications, and hopefully, in the fulness of time, employers will beging to understand what this all means!

Posted By CFT James I have undertaken both NVQ level 4 and level 5. CFT. CMIOSH

Posted By Adams777 Thanks guys and girls for all the comments. I must say that my NVQ 4 was externally verified by City and Guilds and I fully appreciate that there are a lot of employers out there who do not recognise it. But look in the jobs section of SHP and most of the firms recruiting want membership of IOSH as a prerequiste and NVQ4 gets you membership. Many years ago (in the late 60s) I did a City and Guilds in Marine Engineering (HND)at a technical college (full time education (2 years) although I was employed by a shipping line). 30 years later I wanted to try my hand at teaching and was told that each subject (4) was worth half an A level and all I could teach was religious education. This is why I was dumb struck to learn that the NVQ4 is considered degree level. Talk about dumbing down. It took me 13 months to collate the evidence, complete 7 assignments, attend 4 one day courses and produce a video of me doing a presentation to an audience on comparing and contrasting HSG65 with the management system used in my firm. I definitely earned the piece of paper and worked in addition to my normal working hours upto 10 hours a week in my own time (mainly on assignments) Regards Joe

Posted By jayjay Adam, I think theres some misunderstanding as my NVQ4 provider said that whether you've done the NVQ4, Diploma or Degree you still only attain Grad IOSH through your membership with IOSH. I would put the degree higher than my NVQ4. Regards, JJ

Posted By doug bell Hi people, again the torment of NVQ - Diploma - Degree. IMHO, the difference in learning can be affected by many influences. Time, cost etc. All who achieve a significant level of accredited qualification deserve the respect that accompanies the hard work put in, however, we argue which is the better / most valid - I feel that the route towards CMIOSH, which many will be working towards is covered by persons with a greater degree of knowledge than I have and these valued and respected members have identified that the NVQ is of sufficient level to form accreditation towards C status with the proven additions of IPD / Peer review / open book etc. If it satisfies these learned and varied persons, where is the problem? My final point is that we are training, learning and developing in order to make an informed action to protect others in the workplace based on our knowledge understanding and professionalism. Isn't that which really matters and not the labels we use to get there? Finally, I worked the NVQ route, primarily because it suited my learning style, was paid for by my employer and was the only way I could have achieved the opening of the door. To all who study this minefield of controversy, I personally congratulate your dediction to the safeguarding of others.

Posted By John R Daly The only thing I would add to this is that I know how long it takes to attain the diploma and the degree as stated above 2 years,10 assignments and 4 exams just for the full diploma. What I would say is that I have never heard anyone with a diploma or a degree equate it to an NVQ 4. This would indicate to me it is only important to NVQ 4 holders that they are held in the same light as diploma or degree holders when assessing qualifications. As with other responders,I would agree there are many routes to CMIOSH and one size does not fit all. But in reality something which can be gained in less than a year as opposed to all the years learning for degrees and diplomas cannot reasonably be seen as equivalent.

Posted By David Matthew It would appear that all chartered members are equal its just that some are more equal to others dependant on the route taken.

Posted By AJM Excellent response Peter and i agree with everything you say. Alan

Posted By Mitch I always thought NVQ meant Not Very Qualified!!

Posted By Richard Hammer I think some people are missing the point here. Sure there are arguments for and against comparing NVQ 4, Diploma etc, with NVQ 4 being much more course work base, using your daily work as proof of knowledge and understanding, with the others being the more old fashioned assignments and exams. The important factor is what YOU get out of it and how well you adapt your knowledge to the day to day life of the working environment, industry you work in. I have worked with guys who have masters degree and are at a total loss in the real world, having difficulty incorporating knowledge and understanding to real life situations. Academic qualifications is only part of the journey to become a very competent professional in H&S. These snobbery comments about NVQ, I'm better than you because I have done a degree are really sad and proof that these people have little understanding of the full concept of being classed a competent professional in this industry.

Posted By Steve Cartwright The original question asked was, is a NVQ equivelant to a Degree? Simple answer is no.

Posted By James M I have a colleague that has recently passed her diploma. She has never chaired a meeting, carried out a risk assessment (other than on a course) carried out a site inspection on her own, investigated an accident on her own,taken witness statements, the list goes on. I have another colleague that is currently doing his NVQ 4 and has completed all of the above already to a competent standard. These are provided as evidence for his NVQ portfolio. If you had to choose one of these as your assistant in your busy department which one would you choose? Point to note: It's more than just about a qualification, it's about other skills that you develop by completing the qualification. If you complete the NVQ to a high standard you will develop many skills that any examination can't give you. James M, CMIOSH NVQ 4, Diploma and MA.

Posted By Cas Steve Cartwright Can you explain why you feel the NVQ4 is not at the same level as a NEBOSH Diploma? Are you aware that the NVQ4, NEBOSH Dip cover the the same national standards? The IOSH open book exam is also based on these standards. This being the case how can you make such statements? I wouldn’t mind being up against you in a court of law, you ill researched and unfounded statements would never stand up under examination. How on earth can you say that an NVQ is restrictive?? A fundamental principle of a Vocational Qualification is that is not restrictive. As for you ‘not being able to get your head around’ someone already being in a job to complete an NVQ’ what exactly is the issue? Why would it not be possible for someone to have prior knowledge and/or other qualifications and secure a job before taking an NVQ or Diploma? You mentioned that you are a D32/33 assessor, but go on to say you are not impressed by the NVQ system. You are an assessor, if you are unhappy with the standard of your candidate’s evidence it is up to you to take action it and give the candidate guidance on how he qualification can be achieved, how you can say you are unimpressed with a system within in which you have held such a crucial role??? It is assessors like you who give people(with NO common sense) the idea that they can make ill researched and unfounded statements. Furthermore, you say – ‘One other question. How come you don't see any postings asking if the Degree or the Diploma is the equivalent of a NVQ.’ Do you accept that IOSH do not deem achievement of a degree or Diploma to be equivalent to an NVQ and therefore you must submit a portfolio of evidence as part of the criteria for chartership. And finally you say – ‘I must admit I've learnt a lot more about H&S whilst doing the job.’ I am glad that you realise that exams are only a part of achieving a level of competence. I am just surprised that you admit you had more to learn once you passed your diploma, seeing as you come across as such an absolute know it all. Cas