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Posted By A Hayden
A member of our sales staff claims he has eye strain, headaches etc and needs to have an eye test.
All sales are processed through a pc. The staff member wants the Company to pay for it, however my boss states as the employee does not regularly have eye tests, in fact the last was 3 years ago, he will not pay for this one.
The boss has privately stated that he will not pay for over 50 members of staff to have their eyes tested. I told him I thought he was wrong and he went quite pale and became angry.
Ah well, I liked this job.
What does the forum think? Should our company pay for this employee's eye test?
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Posted By J.Walford
For your information, this is taken from the HSE website. "You are entitled to ask your employer to provide an eye test if you are an employee who habitually uses DSE as a significant part of your normal work. This is a full eye and eyesight test by an optometrist (or a doctor). Your employer should arrange for your test and should tell you how to apply. Your employer will only have to pay for spectacles if the test shows you need special spectacles (e.g. ones prescribed for the distance the screen is viewed at). If your ordinary prescription is suitable for your DSE work the employer does not have to pay for your spectacles"
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Posted By A Hayden
Thanks for that.
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Posted By SteveD-M
The Display Screen Regulations.
(4) Where a user experiences visual difficulties which may reasonably be considered to be caused by work on display screen equipment, his employer shall ensure that he is provided at his request with an appropriate eye and eyesight test, any such test to be carried out by a competent person as soon as practicable after being requested as aforesaid.
Seems pretty clear.
What concerns me is that your risk assessment review process hasn't picked this up before now. This would have let you schedule a more costs efficient method for dealing with tests i.e. so many per month through the year.
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Posted By safetyamateur
J.Walford's said it all.
Can't believe there's still organisations/individuals that baulk at this.
Make sure you tell him/her that prosective employees should be given one before taking up DSE User posts. And then get the oxygen ready.
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Posted By Alan Haynes
You need to look at the legislation for the criteria that determine who, in your company, would be classified as a 'user'
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
The eye test aas I assume you mean in your posting is exactly that an eye test not an eye sight test. The eye test checks if the use of DSE is having an effect on the eye not the sight. You need to make this clear to your boss, the DSE Regs is mandatory when it comes to eye tests and your boss is quite correct in refusing an eye sight test. If someone wears glasses normally most eye sight testing also covers DSE work, I know mine does.
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Posted By A Hayden
"Can't believe there's still organisations/individuals that baulk at this."
Tell me about it, I have just had the most awful dressing down for daring to challenge his decision. He has accused me of breaching confidentiality rules, overstepping my authority, I think this whole credit crunch is my fault too.
Mea maxima culpa
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Posted By Mauser Bob
If you contact the major opticians for details of there Corporate eye-care, you can get some bargains we settled for a deal that costs £17.00.
for that you get an eye test. a pair of single vision glasses or £20.00 off a more expensive pair.
I suggest you get all the relevant legislation together and present it to your boss.
Then follow it up a few days later with this wonderful bargain you have found.
First the problem then the solution.
Im not in the advertising business, hence no opticians names.
Best of luck.
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Posted By safetyamateur
" I think this whole credit crunch is my fault too"
Yeah, we had it down to you too.
Maybe pulling him up about this at the annual staff dinner was a bit much.
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Posted By A Hayden
"The eye test aas I assume you mean in your posting is exactly that an eye test not an eye sight test. The eye test checks if the use of DSE is having an effect on the eye not the sight. You need to make this clear to your boss, the DSE Regs is mandatory when it comes to eye tests and your boss is quite correct in refusing an eye sight test. If someone wears glasses normally most eye sight testing also covers DSE work, I know mine does"
Thanks Bob, er I am not sure if I have understood this.
The lad in question does not wear glasses. However some of our office staff do. Am I right in thinking if you wear glasses and get your eyes tested, say, every 2 years anyway, then the Company need not pay for this. They only need pay for an "extra" test if you feel your eyes/ sight has deteriorated due to working with DSE. Also, they should pay for the first test if you feel again it is required due to working with DSE?
(I can't believe my boss may be right...!!)
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Posted By safetyamateur
Not sure what distinction you're drawing there, Bob Shillabeer.
It's very much the two in the Regs; eye & eyesight test.
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Posted By safetyamateur
In fact, I'm not aware that DSE has any proven detrimental effect on eyes or eyesight.
The test is to identify existing weakness/condition.
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Posted By Phil Rose
If the person meets the criteria as a 'user' then NO the boss is definitely NOT right. The posts by J Walfrod and Steve D have essentially got it spot on.
Mauser Bob - we also use a high street chain for the tests (via a voucher scheme) and they give fab VFM - eye test and ‘single vision VDU’ specs (if required) for a very reasonable (crazy) price; and the administration is very simple and cost effective.
Bob (S) I don't understand your response - 'your boss is quite correct in refusing an eye sight test'!!!!! Both Reg 5 of the DSE regs and the accompanying guidance HSE L26 paras 71 - 73 couldn't be more straightforward or explicit.
Those meeting the user definition, are entitled to an eye and eye sight test on request. This is regardless of whether they have previously had a test before or not, or if they have previously used another optician in the past or have been wearing specs for the last 25 years; they are entitled.
'Standard stuff' that has essentially been in place for over 10 years (there has been some amendments/clarification in L26)
Phil
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Sorry folks perhaps my pouint was not very clear. Try again. The eye test is particular to the effects the use of DSE can have on the eye not on the ability to read, hope you are with me. You don't need to have defective eyesight (as in the case when you need glasses for reading etc) for an eye examination for DSE requirements, the point is the use of DSE can affect the eye through the effect of the screen on the eye e.g the eye gets tired when used for long periods but the eye sight of the individual is not affected. Thats why someone who uses DSE should refocus thier eye every so often to stop them getting fatigued etc. Hope I am being clearer. Ther use of DSE doesnt make the eye become defective through it use but can make them tired and prolonged use can result in some sort of eye deteriation which would result in glasses being needed to read for example. Are there any optitions out there who can add to this/
Hope my contribution is now clearer
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Posted By FAH
A Hayden
May I suggest that you also very specifically draw your boss's attention to the HSWA Sect 9 which effectively makes it a criminal offence to put any cost at all that may arise as a result of the requirements of h&S onto the employee.
The DSE Regs are explicit as to where the cost for eye tests must lay - the employer!
If an employer attempts to manipulate the situation by using the legal "opt-out" of classifying employees as "non-users"; please be aware that the criteria for being classified as a "user" go far beyond the very narrow time-related criteria in the Guidance to the DSE Regs.
Under the circumstances described, I would advise any employee who finds themselves classified as "non-users" to challenge that classification immediately.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By Phil Rose
Yes, there is a potential S9 issue as well - good thinking!
Bob, the problem I had was your statement 'your boss is quite correct in refusing an eye sight test' - I really don't see that he has any choice at all - this is very straightforward stuff.
Phil
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Posted By safetyamateur
Sorry to harp on but I'm reeling from this direct connection between DSE use and specs.
My understanding is there in no connection.
Would appreciate clarification.
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie
Having just read this thread I am not sure that it has been established that the sales person is a "user" as described in the regulations.
It they are in telesales and sat at a PC screen all day taking orders, they are a user and entitled to an eye test and if necessary suitable DSE spectacles free of charge.
If they are sales staff on the floor of a shop who use DSE equipment to input sales when they occur. they are probably not "users" and therefore not entitled to eye test or spectacles free.
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Posted By FAH
Dear Safety Amateur
In your other posts on this Forum it isn't clear where your expertise & industry sector might lay; so -
May I first suggest that you re-read the info above & check out the specific references to UK legislation [if you're a UK employee or employer].
The UK DSE Regs are explicit in the requirement to provide the eye tests to those employees identified as "DSE Users" by the employer at no cost to the employee.
The UK DSE Regs are also explicit in the requirement on the employer to provide any prescribed remedial measure [normally spectacles] at no cost to the employee for the basic prescription identified as necessary for work at DSE.
The DSE Regs are also explicit in that there is no onus on the employer to pay anything for eyesight correction that the individual employee has as a routine correction for everyday use & is considered by the opthalmic tester to be adequate for use at DSE as well.
Additionally, the employer is under no requirement to pay for any additional standard or embellishment that an individual employee may desire; that additional, extra to the prescribed requirement, embellishment is entirely the individual employees' cost.
I trust that this helps you to make the connection between DSE & spectacles.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By FAH
Sorry - got carried away & hit the "Post" button before proof-reading [again!]
The sentence - "The UK DSE Regs are also explicit in the requirement on the employer to provide any prescribed remedial measure [normally spectacles] at no cost to the employee for the basic prescription identified as necessary for work at DSE" should read-
The UK HSWA S9 is also explicit in the requirement on the employer to provide any h&s remedial measure at no cost to the employee - in this case for the basic prescription identified as necessary for work at DSE.
My apologies for any confusion.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By Phil Rose
Frank
spot on! If someone has a 'VDU eye test' and the optician determines that they needs specs specifically for VDU (normally the mod range distances) then the employer is liable for the costs as you described. L26 - paras 85 - 89 apply.
Phil
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Posted By safetyamateur
FAH, I fear we've gone awry here.
Bob Shillabeer said:
"Ther use of DSE doesnt make the eye become defective through it use but can make them tired and prolonged use can result in some sort of eye deteriation which would result in glasses being needed to read for example"
My understanding is as per point 17 of Appendix 2:
Medical evidence shows that using DSE is not associated with permanent damage to eyes or eyesight; nor does it make existing defects worse.
The use bold and italics and stuff.
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Posted By FAH
Hi Safety Amateur
Thank you for the response.
The quote from Bob S is entirely correct & I have no arguement with it at all; please note that I haven't referred to any of that quote in my immediately preceding post.
I have simply attempted to respond to your observation and to clarify the relationship between the DSE Regs requirements for eye tests, spectacles & who pays for which under what circumstances. This is also relevant to the majority of preceding posts on this thread.
If we're now going to move into a discussion on the actual health issues of working at DSE; bearing in mind the ever-watchful Moderator, may I suggest that we should commence a new thread so as to open up this new topic to the widest possible audience.
I shall be happy to continue this exchange there as appropriate.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Evening All, just to make my view clear, the eye test under the DSE Regs is not a test of eyesight. That should be paid by the individual. The eye test covered under the DSE Regs is one that checks for problems that can be caused by viewing the DSE Screen such as tired eyes which can be quite debilitating even though generally it is sort lived. Eye sight problems lead to either short sightedness or longsightedness and is caused by a general deteriation in the eye itself, something that normal use of DSE will not cause.
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Posted By Phil Rose
Sorry Bob, what an odd way to look at it. Employees ARE entitled to a free EYESIGHT test if they are a USER
Reg 5 makes it very plain
the employer ..... shall, if requested by that person, ensure that an appropriate eye and EYESIGHT test is carried out
Para 74 of the ACoP/Guidance
74
The College of Optometrists has produced a statement of good practice for optometrists on DSE matters, published in the guidance for professional conduct on their website (see Appendix 6). Among other things, it makes clear that the purpose of the eye test by an optometrist or doctor under regulation 5 is to decide whether the user has any defect of sight which requires correction when working with a display screen.
You might want to read the statement of good practice concerning eye tests for DSE workers College of Optometrists guidance for professional conduct - http://www.college-optom...B&type=ethics_guidelines
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Posted By Phil Rose
The test is VERY much a test of EYESIGHT!
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Posted By safetyamateur
Around and around we go!
"Evening All, just to make my view clear, the eye test under the DSE Regs is not a test of eyesight. That should be paid by the individual. The eye test covered under the DSE Regs is one that checks for problems that can be caused by viewing the DSE Screen such as tired eyes which can be quite debilitating even though generally it is sort lived. Eye sight problems lead to either short sightedness or longsightedness and is caused by a general deteriation in the eye itself, something that normal use of DSE will not cause."
Bob, the more you try to clarify the more confused I get. And no doubt others do too.
If the DSE test is just for "problems that can be caused by viewing the DSE Screen such as tired eyes which can be quite debilitating even though generally it is sort lived", how could you end up with a prescription for glasses?
Once and for all:
- it is an EYE & EYESIGHT TEST
- it looks for EYE & EYESIGHT PROBLEMS, particularly those that are permanent or chronic an affect the INTERMEDIATE range of vision
- there is no known connection between DSE USE and PERMANENT EYE & EYESIGHT PROBLEMS
- employer pays for provision where user is concerned
*harumph*
Moderators please lock this thread before Bob tries to clarify again (joke)
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Posted By Homer
Eye test are usually free, I have similar issue and individual is going to T*SC* optician to get checked out. If they need glasses we pay £75 of cost, which covers most run of the mill lenses and frames but not designer ones.
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Posted By mike morland
I have read all previous responses to this post prior to adding my own contribution.
For the last 10 years it has been my understanding that according to the guidance notes in reference to DSE Regulation 5 'Eye and eyesight test'- the employer is required to provide users (as defined in reg 2(d) 'who so request it' with an appropriate eye and eyesight test. In Great Britain this means a 'sight test' as defined in S36(2) of the Opticians Act 1989. The test includes a test of vision and examination of the eye.
Additionally basic 'special corrective appliances' are at the cost of the employer if required for DSE sole use.
Using DSE eye and eyesight test vouchers from a well known high street ophthalmic opticians will supply the basic specs for DSE use free of charge.
Regards
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Posted By Phil Rose
Safetyam
Yes, help me get off this 'merry go round'! I agree, Bob's 'clarification' is confusing me as well. My post was pulled as I had directly quoted the ACoP (sorry mods)
But you are right, the DSE regs provide for an eye and eyesight test, that is so very very clear in the regs and ACoP. I don't why this is still being 'contested'.
Homer - if you have a number of people entitled to tests I suggest you look at one of the leading high street chains and you could save £££££'s. We use vouchers that cost £17 and this entitles the employee to a full eye and eyesight test and a pair of single vision 'VDU specs' if necessary. If they need specs for any other reason they get a discount. I am very happy with the arrangement. Great value for money and low admin costs as well.
Phil
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Posted By CS Chen
really a long thread. What i understand is that eye test and eye sight test is mandatory for user. But could anyone point out the frequency? Thanks
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Posted By bereznikov
I believe that would be determined by the recommendations/instructions of the Optician.
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Posted By Fornhelper
Just read through this posting and my eyes are sore !! Time to re-focus on something else!!
:-)FH
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Posted By safetyamateur
The thread that wouldn't die.
These poor folk putting a perfectly reasonable set of words into 'search' deserve better.
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Posted By Bob Y
I can't believe that this is still being posted to either but, Bob, even if you do not have access to the ACoP the DSE regs are freely available at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/s...2/Uksi_19922792_en_1.htm - please read reg 5 which states very clearly "..his employer shall ensure that he is provided at his request with an appropriate eye and EYESIGHT test.."
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Posted By Jack
Good Lord, I thought I was back in 1993 when I came across this post! Why is there still so much confusion about these Regs amongst H&S professionals? (With apologies to those who clearly are not confused but are not being believed).
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Posted By Phil Rose
Jack, same here, I was surprised to see that this was still a 'live' topic. It never ceases to surprise me that people can still debate such basic stuff, especially when there is so much good and free guidance on the HSE website and that all the statutes are freely available. I was particularly confounded by the eye yest/eye sight test debate. As pointed out the regs, ACoP and guidance make it clear that 'users' are entitled to an eye SIGHT test.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Bloody Hell. Probably the most frequent of faqs in the 'softer' side of out profession and yet we're wandering all over the place in our responses here.
Can I suggest a look at the College of Optometrists website and their Code of Ethics for some definitive answers and information as to the obligations of the Optician? See:
http://www.college-optom....Ethics_Guidelines_home/
and specifically Part 25 "Work with Display Screen Equipment".
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Re-post with mild expletive deleted(apologies)!
May I suggest that the College of Optometrists Code of Ethics, in particular Section 25 "Work with Display Screen Equipment" provides definitive information. Available here:
http://www.college-optom....Ethics_Guidelines_home/
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