Posted By Stuff4blokes I have a client who owns several commercial property complexes, some offices, some retail and offices, some industrial. They manage some of these directly, others via managing agents. Fire arrangements are different in each. Some have tenants who have taken on the responsibility, some are the responsibility of th emanaging agents, others have a contracted "building manager" who performs this function and one has nobody but I'm working on that! Each tenant has the responsibility for their own unit and for safe and full evacuation on activation of the alarm. The fire drills are done at 6-monthly intervals and critiqued. Generally this should be specified at the letting stage and when the lease is drafted and part of the fire risk assessment must have dealt with this aspect. If not, then the most operable solution must be found. This is likely to be your responsibility as managers of the building. What does your management fee provide for the tenants?

Posted By lewes Thanks you both for your input. We are in the process of putting the fire RA together, hence my questions

Posted By FAH Hi Lewes In answer to your specific questions & supporting information:- 1 - As the premises controller you are responsible for ensuring that FRAs have been completed for ALL common areas & that suitable emrgency procedures are imposed. 2 - As premises controller you are responsible for making sure that all the tenants have completed their FRAs AND that ALL their emergency response procedures are fully & properly integrated with yours [for the common areas] & each others. 3 - The provision of Fire Marshals is contentious under these circumstances. However, given that you have no controlling presence on site, it may be appropriate to oversee the tenant FRAs & ensure that each tenant provides some reliable means of providing information to the oncoming Emergency Services. 4 - The provision of an alarm system to cater for the common areas & to warn those elswhere in the building in the event of a fire is your responsibility. It is also your responsibility to ensure that the provided alarm system is suitably tested & maintained. One acceptable way of achieving the testing could be by "persuading" an influential tenant to undertake the testing; but the responsibility for it actually happening will remain yours! As part of the FRA, you should be considering what needs to be tested, how & what frequency. Frank Hallett

Posted By Joe McCluskey I think you would be responsible to ensure adequate arrangements are made. (I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong lol, but I believe the individual offices would be responsible for their internal procedures, however these would need to tie in with the landlords arrangements ( you being the landlord) I also believe you have the responsibility to manage the arrangements, but the costs associated would be part of the rental agreement. With such high amount of tenancy in one place, it would be normal to have concierge services on site and these guys would be trained to aid escape etc ( fire warden/marshal) Check out the The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 the Fire (Scotland) Act 2005 and The Fire Safety (Scotland) Regulations 2006 (England is slightly different to us up here, however the end result would be the same.) THe regs can be downloaded from OPSI Hope this helps JOe

Posted By FAH Hi Adrian I generally find that I agree with your posts. Unfortunately, on this occassion I find that I can't 'cos I have a different interpretation of the responsibilities of those who own, & manage on the owners behalf, to the one that you appear to have. In this case it appears that they are the same legal entity anyway. Let's both go back to research the actual wording of the legislation before we come back and dispute this further? Lewes, could you please clarify in which legal administrative area your premises actually are - Scotland, Wales, NI, England or somewhere else? Frank Hallett

Posted By Adrian Watson Hi Frank/Joe, There is no dispute as to whether the managing agent has responsibilities; he has to carry out a risk assessment of the non-tenanted areas, etc, as well as provide information and coordinate activities with other persons. The point I differ on is as to whether he has responsibility for the tenants. He has responsibility for the tenants to the extent that he has control; no control - no responsibility; full control - full responsibility. If the tenants are an employer, then as employer they have responsibility for ensuring the safety of their staff. The landlord or agent may have responsibility for the structure in the tenants demise if there is not a full repair and maintenance lease in place. As employer the tenant has to appoint fire marshalls, carry out training, etc as well as provide information and coordinate activities with other persons including the landlords or its agent. In no case does the landlord or the agent have to ensure that the tenant complies with the law; that is the role of the enforcer. Regards Adrian

Posted By lewes Thanks for all your input, much greater knowledge.