Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Stephanie Tarren  
#1 Posted : 21 March 2010 21:28:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stephanie Tarren

Hello I'd appreciate your professional opinions on this. How have you managed who the 'Responsible Person' is in your companies, particularly in relation to Fire? We've had a recent Fire Officer visit .... Thanks for your help, Stephanie
Steve Sedgwick  
#2 Posted : 21 March 2010 23:59:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

Stephanie Before the technical answers start on this is my view. It depends on who controls the purse strings, which controls the manpower, who controls the budgets for the area. The HS Advisor cannot be that person. Engineers and managers spend money but do not necessarily decide everything it is spent on. The more senior managers that the engineers and managers work for are responsible for,as they are the one that are responsible for ensuring that the resources are spent appropriately. They have sufficient authority. They are the responsible person Steve
jwk  
#3 Posted : 22 March 2010 09:51:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Our responsible person is the CEO; it's on our fire organogram. The Head of Estates is listed as the Fire Safety Manager for the organisation, and in practice he takes all the decisions on expenditure supported by his boss, the Director of Property, John
Heather Collins  
#4 Posted : 22 March 2010 10:44:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

"Responsible Person" has a specific meaning under Article 3 (a) of the FSO. In a workplace RP = employer, so it is actually most likely to be the body corporate not an individual. The person who you appoint to be responsible for carrying out the requirements of the FSO is not necessarily the RP in law.
bill.k  
#5 Posted : 22 March 2010 11:16:09(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bill.k

Hi Stephanie, By definition, the 'Responsible person' is the person that owns the premises or business, or the person with control over the premises, business or activity. As Heather pointed out, the RRFSO requires that the ‘responsible’ person carries out a fire risk assessment, though in practice this is often delegated to a 'competent person', who must have sufficient training experience and knowledge to carry out the fire risk assessment.
Stephanie Tarren  
#6 Posted : 22 March 2010 11:20:31(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stephanie Tarren

Thanks to you all. You have confirmed my understanding. Much appreciated, Stephanie
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 22 March 2010 11:48:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Stepanie A 'responsible person' is used ubiquitously within organisations both formally and informally. Anyone could be deemed or appointed a responsible person, depending on the task and their competence for that task. Normally it is applied to a 'responsible manager' denoting a certain level of authority as well as competence. For formal appointments a letter or some other form of authority should be provided by a more senior person.
firesafety101  
#8 Posted : 22 March 2010 11:53:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Responsible person duties and responsibilities cannot be passed on by delegation. The RP is still the person who owns the premises or business, or the employer.
bill.k  
#9 Posted : 22 March 2010 12:25:18(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bill.k

Agree with Chris. With regards to the RRFSO, the responsible person remains the person that owns the premises or business, or the person with control over the premises, business or activity and cannot be delegated. He can appoint a 'competent' person to carry out the donkey work, but is still the 'responsible' person.
Al.  
#10 Posted : 22 March 2010 20:12:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Al.

Sorry if this matter has been well discussed before but I remain concerned that many who post here do not understand the concept of a “legal person”. Heather touches on it in her post above but has everyone got their heads around it? When the fire safety legislation refers to a person it means a “legal person”. This can be a single individual but in most cases it is going to be the company or organisation which employs staff and/or which occupies the premises. The law allows these corporate entities to act as though they were single individuals or persons but let’s not forgot that actually they are not – it is just a legal convenience. So when the fire safety legislation places duties and responsibilities on the responsible person you do not have to go looking around to find an individual on the staff who is going to take on this role. The company which employs you is already that person in the sense that it is a “legal person”. So whenever legislation refers to a person you need to ask yourself if, in your particular circumstances, it does mean a single individual or does it mean the corporate entity – i.e. the company which employs you. Almost all of the posts which are suggesting that the responsible person needs to be a single individual (e.g. the Managing Director) appear to have missed this very important point.
jwk  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2010 13:14:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Hi Al, I am well aware of the exsitence in law of 'legal persons' and I am also aware that 'responsible person' could be taken to mean such a legal entity, and doesn't necessarily have to be a real meat person. However, in the context of the question, it is worth pointing out that for internal purposes it is helpful to make somebody personally responsible for fire safety. That person does need to have the power to marshall the resources of the legal person, in short that person needs to be able to fulifill the criteria of a controlling mind. The OP seemed to imply that such a controllng mind is what their fire officer was looking for, John
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.