Our team of engineers have requested permission to wear shorts during the summer months in place of their cargo trousers. What are the risks we have to consider as part of the risk assessment? So far I have considered the use of sun block and its regular application each day. Cuts from gutting and subsequent infections (first aid boxes are in each engineers van). If we allow shorts I have considered supplying cargo style shorts to assist transportation of items especially when they work at height. I would appreciate your thoughts/feedback on the risks of the engineers wearing shorts. Cheers Gary

McG Having worked it the trade a few years back I would say the biggest problem is glass in any for, new, edged or cullet. Make it clear in your RA that full lenght trousers are preferred method of protection. Then get the blighters to read it and confirm what is said in the RA. From then on if they in sist on wearing short thats their issue if they injure themselves (so long as you have their signature to say they've read the document). Unfortunatlely if they hurt themselves it still comes back to the employer, but then you have evidence to prove you've done all you can. Badger

Barrie I disagree. If you have a risk assessment that says trousers you have to stand up and enforce that. If you try what you suggest you are heading for a fall. Ian, employees should be involved in the risk assessment process and the employer should never prejudge and decide the result of an assessment prior to doing it. Is this what you are saying?

Look sorry to be a bore, but these guys are NOT Engineers by any stretch of the imagination. Please don;t refer to them as such, we would all be up in arms if anyone who has had a days H&S training was refered to as a H&S consultant. Sorry again but they are window fitters, glaziers, carpenters, joiners, tradesmen, but NOT by any stretch of the imagination engineers. Paul.

Trousers… “to prevent a cut or penetration or not to prevent a cut or penetration? … that is the question”. If your existing RA’s do not require specific PPE trousers or full length trousers as a control measure to eliminate or mitigate risk then review your RA’s and make a decision. If trousers are supplied simply as uniform and not PPE, then start ordering the shorts. By the way, If we now get forty days of rain and a lousy summer… we know where to point the finger Mc17073!

Hi everyone. Many thanks for your feedback. Firstly can I apologise to Paul.Skyrme as I didn't mean to offend anyone's profession. For the purpose of this forum I will not refer to our replacement window fitters as engineers. That really wasn't the purpose of my question on the forum, I was looking for constructive advice as to the risks to consider before compiling a risk assessment for allowing (or not as the case may be) our replacement window fitters to wear shorts. The shorts are not part of their PPE. They have been supplied with suitable gloves/hand protection for transporting the window frames/glass, etc. In response to the question as to whether they fit glass or glass already mounted within frame - the answer is both. The majority of the time they are replacing a blown sealed unit with a new one. Sometimes they just replace the window furniture (handles, hinges, etc), replace poly carbonate roof sheeting and other similar works such as replacing fascia, soffits and guttering. All windows installed comply with Part L of the building regs. I fully intend carrying out a risk assessment but would appreciate constructive feedback on what to consider for the risk assessment. ChrisBurns - sorry typo error, this should have read 'cuts from guttering and associated infections from the debris found in guttering, etc'. Thanks for highlighting my typo. Thanks also for the idea of contacting those that work in UAE, this is the sort of advice I believe is warranted within this forum. Please keep your constructive advice, thoughts, comments coming. Regards Gary

I'll tell my mate down at the steelworks to try wearing carpet slippers instead of those big uncomfortable steelies as some would look at that positively. Alternatively, wear what the R/A says you should and just take more breaks out of the sun, take on more fluids, rotate the job if poss. I also will assume these replacement windows, soffits and guttering are not all at ground level and as such some of your workforce are clambering about up ladders, probably whilst carrying something up them, or working from scaffolding. From my experience as a steel erector in a previous life, the risk of cuts or scratches (then infection) is greatly increased by wearing shorts. Good luck in your search for the solution mate and for the pedants, a housewife is now considered a 'domestic engineer'..... Apparently.

Carpet slippers - steelworks - that's positive - there's always one isn't there :-) On site the other day the scaffold "engineers" were wearing shorts, obviously for comfort during the hot weather. (Looked nice as they were uniform). Not using their slings while working close to the exposed edge I add.

McGivern17073 posted... In response to the question as to whether they fit glass or glass already mounted within frame - the answer is both. The majority of the time they are replacing a blown sealed unit with a new one. Sometimes they just replace the window furniture (handles, hinges, etc), replace poly carbonate roof sheeting and other similar works such as replacing fascia, soffits and guttering. All windows installed comply with Part L of the building regs.... They are not just fitting sealed units. They are also handling sheets of glass, replacing fascias, gutters etc as well. Time for a R/A review methinks.......

Wow, on and on it goes. Practicality and pragmatism are the best allies when thinking about any ppe. Have any of you ever had to wear cut protection clothing? Whether Kevlar or ballistic nylon based, both are uncomfortable to wear at any time. In high ambient temperatures and direct sunlight you would be asking a great deal of your employees to wear it consistently. It is always essential that you properly address the hazards and risks then check out the best way to provide any ppe. It is even more important that whenever the available protection is not easy to wear or work in then you had better be absolutely certain you need to specify it and you have found the best "fit". Frank, your steelworks example has many such situations, I am less convinced that glazing installation has. So, as I said at the beginning of this thread, what actually is the risk and how should we best control it? It is not as easy as saying provide full length leg protection. You might ask yourself the question..how many cuts occur to legs when handling or moving glass, which parts of the leg, what type of cuts, what level of cut and puncture protection would I need to prevent those types of cut. What other snag, puncture and cut hazards are there on the average work site. Do I need to protect from them? Do all other trades have to wear full length trousers and if so why? What is the experience in warmer climes where this work is done? And finally, check with the folks at the GGF or British Glass; what do they say about leg protection for working with glass? p48

Don't forget to supply them with sun cream if they are switching to shorts.

Grim, have I missed a change in the general advice to employers about providing sun cream? I thought there was no legal requirement? p48

Why do they need permission? Is it specified that they have to wear long trousers?

Q1. Does the existing Risk Assessment identify that long trousers are required to protect workers from the weather? Q2. Does your company have a Dress Code? If answer to the above questions is "no", then I can wear what I like - I don't have to ask! (p.s. I am also irked by incorrect use of term "Engineer".)

Resisted this thread so far but, I can't help but wonder what on earth is going on in the world of health and safety. A few years ago I was introduced to a MD of a small contractor whose guys fit out kitchens. He proudly told me that he had banned the wearing of shorts for all his operatives. I said "why?" He was flumoxed and could not give me a reason other than to prevent themselves from getting cuts. Oh, I said, long trousers are going to protect the guys from an electric saw? Now I read it is to protect them from the sun. As the previous poster has asked, what about bare arms? Are we going to ask workers to cover all bare skin in summer. It could be argued that sun cream is PPE and should be provided by the employer - so be it. Let's not nanny people. If operatives want to wear shorts or short sleeved tops then let them be aware of any potential risks and let them get on with it. No one is going to be prosecuted for allowing operatives to wear shorts in summer unless there are some serious risk. Incidentally, in my industry (railway) shorts are banned because of the increased risk of electrocution - bare skin contacting current rails. No problem.

I work for a window manufacturing company and I have banned shorts from the whole factory site as my risk assessment shows. I have not had one injury due to cuts on the legs for over 4 years now and the most important thing is no claims for injuries. No arguments from me shorts or trousers?

It's no wonder that our industry has such a reputation for being anal. With so much discussion about petty semantics - engineer versus fitter. Our prime objective is to ensure an individual can come to work and work safely. Whether they be engineer, brain surgeon, toilet cleaner or window fitter! Pragmatic Risk Assessment, tool box talks with the employees, provision of appropriate PPE and good communication about the risks - that should pretty much cover it!

Fair do's mate. I was a steel erector for 26 years in my previous life and regularly wore shorts in the summer (before risk assessments were mandatory) and i remember catching my leg on a sharp piece of steel which required 7 or 8 stitches. One of the other workers said to me as i went to have stitches "I caught my trousers on that yesterday and ripped a big hole in them" Long trousers for me after that........