Much will depend on the available resources at your HSE area. However, I rather suspect that the HSE will in fact pursue a number of duty holders including the CDMC with rigour with a likely prosecution to follow.

Further observations - CDMC "checking" the building. Is he/she a competent Asbestos Surveyor?

Check out his/her competenence levels but be mindful not to rely on Membership status /grade of professional bodies.

I applaud your initiative to report the matter to the HSE.

Jon

Well done James for getting this result. I know you were "only doing your job" but you have certainly found a large hole in competence there.

I haven't a clue about what HSE will do but feel you should be notifying the Client that they have appointed a CDMC who is not reliable and that without you the Client would also have been at risk of a prosecution?

John M is it not the Client's responsibility to check the competence of the CDMC?

That's no defence!!

"Working on the refurbishment of an old building in the south west, I requested a refurb/demo asbestos survey from the CDMC resulting in the CDMC telling me he checked the building and there is no asbestos and that he will state that in the Pre Construction Information and resubmit."

Re reading your opening sentence above it appears to me that you have started the work without having all relevant documents issued.

Is this true?

Now that the proverbial has hit the fan are you halting the project while asbestos is removed from the premises?

If so the Client will not be very happy and may resist you getting an asbestos company in. Takes a long time with notice to HSE then removal.

James
A CDMC was issued with a notice in the north of scotland. He was given 3 months to show competency in his role as a CDMC. He had failed to ask questions of the designer with regards to a mansafe system on a roof(as far as i can remember). Details are in the HSE data base. Do not know the final outcome.

Johnb

Well done James, all too often the PC is the one who's not competent. In this case it looks like the CDMC isn't quite up to it.

I act as CDM-C for clients I always provide a company / personal CV to indicate to the Client that we are competent to carry out the role. The first question by a CDM-C on any refurb job that should be asked is where's the demolition and refurbishment asbestos survey and advise the client that if it isn't in place it must be. From a client's point of view it's cheaper than having the PC pull off with the meter running.

Part of a CDM-C's job is to make sure the client is aware of his duties. I always assume they are not aware so make a point of explaining it both in person and in writing.

It is possible the HSE will act and I think you should push it as far as you can, they would be quick to jump on you if you exposed your workers.

Being an old pedant - One has to ask why the PCI is on site after all it should be incorporated into the CPP. If not who is failing to do their job properly. But as said a great many believe that it should merely be attached to the CPP and is thus incorporated! We are beginning to see a failure to read and absorb fully the meaning of regulatory texts. This is a growing trend, but hairsplitting can be very useful when coping with over zealous inspectors etc. It is a trait of many good contract managers also.

I feel I have to redress the balance a little here as one CDMC who has had to deal with recalcitrant clients and designers as well as contractors who claim to know everything. The role is difficult when other parties do not want to play ball and one does not know the pressures on this CDMC. It does go to show hoever that the CDMC role should never really be a single individual even though the regs may permit it on small projects.

I do applaud the realisation by the OP that there is grave danger in taking control of a site before the Asb Survey is done as the duty passes to the PC by definition under the CAR2006. Far too many contractors forget this and believe they can get the client to do it later - no way I am afraid.

As the safety manager for PC, we unfortunately believed everything was in place, client had provided 2 asbestos surveys for the works (2 phases) and all was going well until client was doing a walk round and spotted a hatch open. He asked the Site Manager what was going on as there was asbestos within the area. He then supplied a 3 asbestos survey. To cut a long story short, it turned out the CDM(C) had this survey but hadn't passed it on! Fortunately, the asbestos had been removed and no -one put at risk, however, we refused to carry out further works until a new survey had been conducted. Still waiting to see if any action will be taken against the CDM (C)

It would also be interesting to know when the CDM-C was appointed.
Also, a refurb./ demolition survey info. should be a key reference source for Designers involved - irrespective of notification status. Designer should also have advised Client of survey requirement.

James,

I have no knowledge of any enforcement action being taken against CDM-Cs other than the Scottish case already mentioned. However, I have this year for the first time been called on to represent two CDM-Cs at HSE interviews. In both cases the HSE took no further action against my client but clearly the HSE is looking more closely at CDM-Cs than has previously been the case.

I also attended a seminar at which a HSE Construction Inspector spoke and he informed delegates that the HSE is considering bringing its "Tracking Back on CDM" initiative back to life. It is possible therefore that more CDM-Cs (and designers) will in future be investigated by the HSE and under the new proposals announced this week, if found lacking they could face a very large bill for the investigation in addition to the cost of any enforcement action.

Regards.

DJ