Last month it took me a few days to read the SHP jobs section properly and noted I had missed a job advertised in South Wales. It was only a few days, but when I checked the web site (think the one you spread on Toast- if you’re lucky enough to have a toaster), it could not be found. I decided to check the other potential jobs on the same advert and only one of the 4 was current.

This month determined to do better, SHP came through the door yesterday afternoon, checked last night and none of the jobs from the same agency seem to exist. Tried to search for all possible options of how it may be entered, even those reference numbers (where there is no proper place to enter on the site ). No hits. Yes there are some H&S jobs, but a lot are only vaguely related to H&S.

It must cost a lot to advertise, so what is the point ? Is it to get me to go to the website ? Are these jobs are a figment of some evil persons imagination ?

Thinking of giving up with the whole H&S business and doing something else, as I have a lot of transferable skills. Unfortunately of all the jobs that I could transfer my skills to do, there are umpteen people who have actually worked in those roles also seeking those positions. Waiting to find out the answer regarding IPD, I asked IOSH two months ago, before making any final decisions. They appear to be in no hurry to answer and reading some of the posts it takes several months even if I submitted my portfolio today, so already may be too late. My best calculations give me about 4 months before I can no longer pay the mortgage.

May make myself a really hot cup of coffee and run up down the stairs a few times, just to feel like I’m living on the edge. Perhaps this can be classed as a new extreme sport, it fits in with the whole the new “going out” is “staying in” idea.

First of all thanks for the responses from TLC and Terry556

Further to some private messages and some previous posts saying that there are lots of H&S jobs and go and look at a particular site. Please note it was kind of those PM’s that responded with encouragement and I’m not having a go at them. But I do look at these web sites frequently and this is an example of what was found this morning from the one stated.

The search was for any H&S related job in Wales, although I’m in South Wales some sites have difficulty with this (including the Government’s one). I found 47, so at first glance this would indeed seem good. However there were only 10 real H&S jobs (see below). Of these 10, 5 required CMIOSH, 2 of them would be too far to commute, 2 asked for specific qualifications which I do not have. This means there was 1 job I could actually apply for. This is a good day, normally there are none.

Some posters seem to give the impression that there are lots of jobs and those of us looking are not trying hard enough, I beg to differ. This little exercise has taken just over 3 hours, again worth it as I have something to apply for. Wouldn't it be better if you didn't have to wade through all the …… (Please fill in any word you feel appropriate) though.

Review findings detail :-

Job No 1 Not H&S and too far away.
Job No2 H&S Manager utilities - Must have CMIOSH Job repeated in No’s 3, 5, 7, 9, 37.
Job No4 H&S Consultant – North Wales so too far and CMIOSH ? FMIOSH required Job repeated in No’s 6, 36, 41.
Job No8 Only £15k and deadline to apply was 17/03/2011!.
Job No10 H&S Manager – Flint – did not exist when followed trail. Job repeated in No 22.
Job No11 H&S Manager – asked for CMIOSH &“Wind farm experience a must” so unfortunately not the correct experience. Job repeated in No’s 19, 28, 29.
Job No12 H&S Manager – Must have warehouse experience and be a RTITB forklift trainer, so again unfortunately incorrect experience. Job repeated in No’s 13, 15, 16, 18.
Job No14 H&S Manager – Mine / quarry - CMIOSH asked for – followed links but ultimately did not exist. Job repeated in No’s 23, 24, 26.
Job No20 A real job – I can apply for
Job No21 Gwynedd – H&S Manager must be CMIOSH
Job No25 Not fully H&S despite the title quoted – more management systems and only a few months.
Job No27 No longer available
Job No30 West Wales so too far away and very vague over the actual job requirements.
Job No31 Link took me to a list of training providers only !
Job No32 CDM coordinator – Which unfortunately I’m not qualified for.
Job No33 Wrexham – so too far away. Job repeated in No’s 35, 38.
Job No34 Pembrokeshire – possibly too far to travel, but also CMIOSH required.
Job No39 Llanelli – H&S Manager – seems live but following repeat adverts via different agencies say it is no longer available. Job repeated in No’s 40, 44, 45, 46, 47.
Job No42 Listed as no longer available. Job repeated in No 43.

The bottom line is that there are far too many "safety people" chasing too few positions. Recently, we had to advertise for a "hands on" safety officer (to replace one that was returning to Souh Africa.) Some 47 applications were received, of which only 4 could demonstrate the required experience /exposure and man management skills. Of the four, three were CMIOSH , two Registered on that Register and the other was a member of another safety organisation. The latter was the successful candidate based on his experience and job spec suitability.

Over the past 5 years or so of recruiting many safety persons I am of the opinion that not all are real professionals with many holding impressive post nominals who are ill equiped for demanding roles.

When people on site (there are very many) ask me how to "get into" H&S I always advise them not to even consider it and to seek other means of earning a living.

The H&S profession is not what it was 20 years ago - unfortunately!
Jon

The equation on which the quantity of safety management jobs are based upon is complex and although the recession has had a significant impact on pool of available employment, employers also appear to be focusing their search on specific S&H personnel such as high level S&H personnel with strategic management skills or specialist safety personnel such as engineers, CDM-Cs, radiation protection advisors etc.

On large construction projects all senior personnel are expected to understand and implement the safety management arrangements themselves and we also expect sub-contractors to also have the necessary specialist safety management knowledge for the discipline that they are undertaking. I suspect that the same also applies to other industries.

I think what I am trying to say is that organisations with strong management cultures have already listen and learnt from us and no longer need us as these skills have already been passes onto other middle managers and those weaker organisation are probably no longer interested in us with H&S no longer being in Vogue!

I have been very lucky in through safety that I have developed the necessary management, academic and specialist skills to survive (and also give one stay of execution); however I have also had to reinvent myself on more than one occasion. As a result of this, I no longer practice as generalist S&H practitioner.

In terms of my future, i.e. the next 10 to 12 years I suspect that my role within safety will taper off and my career is likely to take yet another turn!

I also tried to give up H&S and side step into a another role with my transferrable skills but also found that there are lots of other candidates with those skills but also the experience meaning I didn't get a look in.

I consider myself lucky that after then not being able to find work back in H&S for some time I was suddenly offered two jobs, one of which I have now started - though on a lower salary that I think I'm worth - and I'm hoping that this is a good employer and an interesting role.

I think the market is saturated with people of a lesser quality nowadays who are driving down salaries. As a consultant I find it frustrating how many peope are losing their job in a specific industry and deciding to become a general consultant instead. Consultancy work is very different and not everyone is suited to it but I found myself up against those with no experience as a consultant but willing to work for less. Frustrating.

For those still looking, I don't think if you haven't found a role that you're not trying hard enough just that these are hard times and you just need to keep plugging away.

Chris I hope you get a job before you run out of money, thank goodness I wasn't in that position. Ray I hope your new job goes ok.

I am currently awaiting results for NEBOSH General Certificate and have applied for a few junior position/entry level jobs, this week i applied for the same job 3 times through 3 different agencies and heard nothing apart from being told by each of them that i had been short listed.

I am hoping to go on to do BSc in Occupational H&S at local uni 1 day a week as its free as i live in wales, as the local college wanted thousands to do the NEBOSH Diploma, some employers/agencies are saying they want Diploma and wouldnt consider the Degree.

Is there such a difference between the 2 qualifications or is it that they are ignorant to the qualifications needed and have only heard of NEBOSH?

I would like to find somewhere part time or somewhere willing to allow day release to attend uni that would benefit me and the company.

Pete

cheers

ray

Chris

I don't think you should be deterred from applying for some of these positions as some of the employers may find that they have set person specs at unrealistic levels.

So look at the job description and then explain to e.g. the wind farm contractor why you have relevant experience that can be transferred to wind farm development.

We have clients who frequently set company specifications which if we took as wholly gospel would find the client significantly limiting its supply chain.

Two months into CDM 1994 we had to demonstrate at least a year's experience of providing Planning Supervisor (PS) services. As happens we could but.....!

More recently a client wanted us to demonstrate our experience as PS or CDMC on wind farms specifically in one part of the UK - well as not a lot of wind farms had been constructed there, we had to point to our experience elsewhere being transferable.

Thanks for the encouragement Peter. I have been reading the various discussion topics and there have been quite a number of posts from people who employ others, who seem exasperated when people apply for jobs requiring something like CMIOSH, when they don’t have it or some other specific criterion. I don’t necessarily let this stop me, but suspect that my CV is filed in the bin in the first round of sifting. It is after all an easy criterion for narrowing down the list.

Stedman, most of the adverts required NEBOSH Dip, I just didn’t particularly list all of them as I have this qualification. So the CMIOSH adverts also wanted NEBOSH Dip or degree etc.

I’m not specifically upset with the lack of jobs as such, but having my time wasted by apparently bogus jobs does annoy me. Time is precious even for the unemployed, like most H&S people that use these forums, we are not the sort of people who can or are used to wasting time. I know when I was working, I could have easily used another 40 hrs in every working week. That is evidenced in others when you look at the times that people use this site, late at night, lunch times and early mornings.

Clairel, I have to admit when I was first made redundant I toyed with the idea of becoming a consultant ( I liked the idea of helping smaller companies). I realised that although I have quite a bit of experience it was very specialised and I would not be able to offer the sort of service that I would expect if I were them. I cannot criticise others though for trying in these desperate times. I understand your point about “lesser quality” but as some smaller companies have gone from sorting their own H&S to employing a “lesser quality” consultant, whom they can now just about afford, this is still an improvement. I appreciate the effect may be that the new business may not make it and take out an existing consultant as they are now sharing a limited pool of potential customers, but times are desperate. Consultants also have to start somewhere.

I wish the best of luck to all those out there, either waiting for results of interviews or still looking. A different discussion on this web site criticised people for moaning over the lack of jobs, and they are quite right. However if a little whining now and then helps to keep the stress levels down a bit and if it helps you focus on the job at hand in looking for work, (Pardon the pun) then no harm done.

Anyway time to stop wasting time and go and do something.

My Diploma is newer ( 2008), however it has changed a little bit again since, but only with respect to the assignments, they do one big assignment now instead of 3 smaller ones ( I think). Generally do employers actually know the diploma has changed over the years ?, some adverts I read they struggle to understand the difference between IOSH, and NEBOSH. Some are not so clear on Cert or Dip either. I was made H&S Manager some time ( years) before I gained the NEBOSH Dip.

My problem is a little different. I have done more of the practical elements than you need to, in order to become chartered (IMO). However there is a question whether or not my experience is acceptable as it is more than 2 years old (3 to 4 years). I have asked the question (several times) but as yet I have had no response from IOSH (other than the original suck it and see approach). I’m not keen on that as it is very time consuming to pull this information together from so long ago, so asked for a written answer, one way or another. I’m guessing the holidays are over now so I may be lucky, though it has been over two months, so I’m not holding my breath.

I was talking to the Works Director of a company the other week and he seemed surprised that I was not chartered with the experience I had, and probably would not employ me as an H&S Manager without it. He also commented that he would not employ me for a role lower down the pecking order, as he felt I would leave the moment I could, due to my experience ( or expect more money than they would be willing to pay). Becoming chartered would not necessarily solve my problem on its own, but may help my CV make it through the first sifting exercise.

By the way there was no actual job, it was a hypothetical conversation with the Director, and I was just trying to get an employer’s take on my actual situation. So sorry, no point in asking me where it was.

There are very few jobs at the moment try SHP online and www.hsejobs.proboards.com - dont give up !