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Control of Asbestos (Regs) for domestic dwellings...confused?
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A contractor is installing central heating in domestic premises, however the client is not the householder but a limited company. The duty to manage asbestos pursuant to CAR 2006 is based on non-domestic premises - Reg 4.-1(a). The client's attitude to asbestos is a tad blasé, notwithstanding that, I find it difficult to reconcile the regulations when there is a commercial interest between the client and the sub-contractor. I fully appreciate there are still duties for the employer even when the activities take place in non-domestic premises, but I'm not sure if the regulations are drafted poorly, ambiguously or I a getting confused with the CDM Regs?
Over to you my erudite friends.
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Rank: Super forum user
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More detail please e.g. Is the accommodation currently occupied by a tenant or will be occupied when the CDM job is complete?
Asbestos and CDM are two completely different laws
NB: Environmental law applies to asbestos irrespective of the situation; domestic and/or business - there is no distinction between the two as does transportation parameters
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Rank: Forum user
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Bob
You are spot on, the regs are ambiguous to say the least when it comes to domestic premises. I do not work in the domestic sector, only commercial/ industrial so someone with more knowledge than me will no doubt elaborate.
What I would say is that even though reg 4 will not specifically apply to domestic premises does not in any way devolve the issue asbestos away from the Client. The specific 'duty to manage' does not apply but it still needs to be correctly controlled by him or his appointed person. He has duties under H&S law and CAR. The subbie(s) also has duties under H&S law and CAR. They can't just put the blinkers on.
Queries about asbestos in domestic premises are very common on here.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Bob, the dwellings are occupied during the installation. Basically there is no information from the client (limited company) with regards to ACMs, it a case of suck it and see, unless a works survey should identify potential asbestos by chance. Once ACMs have been identified or suspected, a licensed contractor tests and or removes. The problem here is the cost cannot be transferred to the client and the work proceeeds on a fixed price. Hence there is a temptation for the operatives in order to 'get the job done' to ignore or remove the offending ACMs themselves if small amounts.
I find that CAR is very confusing in this type of working relationship and domestic environment, possibly others have come across similar conundrums.
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Rank: Forum user
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Bob
See hse web site re Edinburgh council and asbestos in domestic properties. All employers still have a duty not to let their employees or other be exposed to asbestos.
Johnb
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ray, I think essentially you need to put Reg 4 considerations aside and focus on the overarching requirements of CAR06. Reg 4 is really not relevant here. Bear in mind that Reg 4 is very much an "insertion" into previous iterations of the Regulations, and that there is a reason that Reg 4 has its own ACoP.
Regulations 5 (a universal starting point for works) 6, 7,10, 11 and 12 detail the specific approach required by all and any employer, as opposed to any householder, domestic client or Reg 4 "duty holder" consideration.
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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Sorry, it is 3 pages. Also my past experience tells me that the HSE would be very interested in what the client and the subbies are up to.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The need to provide information under CDM applies to all construction work and clients cannot avoid this once they contract out construction work
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Agreed Bob, but you you what it's like in the cut throat commercial world of construction and building industries - don't upset the Client!
Meanwhile, I will be providing an asbestos policy/procedure and RA, so many thanks to everyone for their input.
Ray
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Control of Asbestos (Regs) for domestic dwellings...confused?
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