Rank: New forum user
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I am rather confused on this subject after much research, therefore my question is:- If you have a contractor cleaning windows at height , on a regular basis who has gone through the company's appraisal system therefore an approved contractor (showing all relevant site specific R.As and Safe working methods). Is a Permit to Work Certificate necessary? Similar, If the work is carried out my our own trained staff and carry out this cleaning (using a cradle) on a regular weekly basis, is a P to W certificate necessary?. The key words here are CLEANING WINDOWS & REGULAR. All ideas gratefully recieved!! Denise
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Rank: Forum user
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Depends on your organisations policies and prodecures. If it states that work at height is to be controlled by a PTW then it must be issued and followed to meet your own requirements. If on the other hand it is not a requirement and they procedure is repetitive then the relevant RA/MS should be sufficient.
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Rank: Forum user
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jde - you beat me to it. Permits are an additional level of procedural protection and risk assessment protection. Where and when they are used in a particular organisation is down to your particular procedures.
It's up to you to decide!!!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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And if you are setting your policy on this - you need to ask yourself if there is any benefit in permits for this type of work. Does it give any additional control or protection? It doesn't sound like it in this case. There is a disadvantage in having too many permits (especially repetitive ones) of devaluing the whole permit system.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Without the PTW, are the risks adequately controlled? If yes (to own staff, contractors and anybody else, including any process or property risk exposures) then there is little to be gained by introducing an additional layer of control. If however there are residual risks that can best be controlled by a Permit, then use one.
In the latter case I suggest that other controls may be more appropriate for what is regular and frequent work.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Entirely your choice of course. Where you have glazing reached via intermediate levels (e.g. flat roof) involving edge protection and/or fragile surfaces (skylights) then you may want to operate a PTW which gives assurance that the guys who turn up on the day are able to demonstrate (in all respects) a safe sytem of work?
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Rank: Forum user
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Just a reminder from the ACoPS The issue of a permit does not, by itself, make a job safe - that can only be achieved by those preparing for the work, those supervising the work and those carrying it out.
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Rank: Forum user
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There is another element to this, window cleaners do not work on their own sites and as such may have to comply with the site/ building owners SMS. For his own work on his own site its up to him if he uses a PTW, but when he is on other sites he may have to compy with his clients requirements. clear as mud :-)
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Rank: Forum user
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Most of our clients have an authorisation process on the day despite our RAMS not necessary a permit to work system. It allows them to comply with control of contractors requirements by: - controlling who access, who in their organisation let the contractors on the roof & when access is issued - informing contractors of any residual/current risks (in particular if maintenance is on going, fragile roofs, fumes release (intentional or accidental), etc) - particularly sensitive issue in areas where uncontrolled access onto a roof might result in somebody "jumping" From managing our staff point of view it push them to think before they access as they need it to obtain keys/passes, etc
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Rank: Super forum user
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I usually decide (with others) that a permit isn't required if the work is in the main 'routine'.
Window-cleaning is routine work for a window cleaner so, presumably, risk assessment already done for most situations he encounters, and adequate controls in place re securing ladder, 3-point contact.
I'd say permit to work, only if some out-of-the-ordinary cleaning process is involved. e.g. different equipment, maybe a high traffic area (vehicles or people) requiring an exclusion zone, difficult environment making securing ladder difficult needing someone permanently in attendance etc.
And since he is working on someone else's premises a PtW would likely be appropriate whenever he uses a platform or tower scaffold.
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Rank: Forum user
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On the subject of work at height, did anyone notice the lads standing on the window ledge behind the Queen in Westminster Hall ealier today? A fine sight..... but the edge protection? WAHR anyone? http://www.metro.co.uk/n...nd-jubilee-in-parliamentThey were the state trumpeters of the Lifeguards I am given to understand. Perhaps someone give them a permit.
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