I feel that you have answered this your self by stating "minor" repairs. If this person is competent to do minor repairs then why would you need them to do the wiring regs course? Perhaps you could document their competence in some other way. Of course, this depend on the definition of minor work......

With the greatest respect to all concerned. Any electrical work needs to be tested. If he cannot install to the 17th and test to C&G 2391 he has no reason to be doing the work. Who certifies the work? Not him I hope? If the naughty stuff hits the rotor blades then Please, please refer to the electricity at Work act 1989 before someone gets killed. And what he means by 'protected systems' is anyones guess. Someone is going to get hurt here.

From the OP's original description it looks to me as if the work is more akin to test engineering rather than electrical installation. Perhaps a more appropriate qualification is something like an ONC, then later, HNC in electrical & electronic engineering.

Hi a bit more info is required these are production engineers, apprenticeship and years of experience definitely not hnc or any form of qualification the electrical work is generally if a machine goes down the engineer tests it through basic fault finding and then replaces any part - no live working any installation would be running a power lead from an existing power supply to a machine nothing else anything else is done by contractors they are thousands of engineers of these competencies in factories across UK so I am interested to see how others cope we are not a large site so cant afford a dedicated electrical engineer and we would have to have 3 to ensure 24/7 cover.

Perhaps Paul alludes to the fudge that followed the Finniston Report on the Engineering profession c.1980. There was an opportunity back then to confirm the term "engineer" as conferring status on qualified professionals, in a similar fashion to that in Germany. Sadly not to be and these days, anyone can call themselves "an engineer". Kudos to you Paul, I was once proud to call myself a Mechanical Engineer.

I think we need to get a few facts down here. 17th edition qualification. This is a few days in the classroom, then an open book, on line, multi-choice exam based solely on the current version of BS7671, that is Amd1 2011. This is not an electrical engineering course. It is not an electrical installations or maintenance course. In fact it is not a practical course of any kind. It is merely an exam on how to find your way around the 17th ed. It just raises your awareness of what is in the wiring regulations and how to find it. Next, BS7671 DOES cover industrial installations. BS7671/17th covers the fixed wiring in buildings that is not the responsibility of the DNO up to the point of connection of current consuming equipment, whether that be via a plug, e.g. a 13A socket outlet to power your laptop, or a £1M machine tool which has a single point of connection to the fixed building wiring. However, neither your laptop or the machine are covered by BS7671. Both your laptop and the £1M machine tool are designed and built to different standards. The "equivalent" to BS7671 for machinery is BS EN 60204-1 in its current guise. Also you will have the Machinery and Low Voltage Directives and the other associated product standards to contend with. There is no equivalent to the C&G 17th course for 60204 for a very good reason. Please remember that BS7671/17th edition does not apply to machinery. If the so called Engineer is working on the fixed wiring in the premises then his work really should comply to BS7671, if he is not qualified in the regs & I&T then it would be difficult to prove his competence. If he is working on the fixed wiring does he have the correct calibrated test equipment to meet the requirements of BS7671? Does he have the competence to complete the BS7671 certificates for his work? If not he should not be doing the work. If he is working on machinery then a whole new level of competence is required. This is not taught by a single C&G course over 3 days. ian, I am concerned that you are allowing production engineers to work on electrical systems. This would not be taught on any production engineering course I suspect. There seems to be some misuse or misunderstanding of terms here. I doubt that it would be possible to fault find on machinery without live working, this is one of the areas that HSE will allow live working, it is also a very dangerous situation. Not necessarily just from the electrical risks, but, it can also be from the existing fault on the machine resulting in unexpected machine "behaviour"! I am also curious why you need 3 electrical engineers. All you actually need is 3 machinery maintenance electricians. Why get professional engineers to fix machines? I feel that your employer is out on a limb here as are thousands throughout the UK, it is just by luck that they survive! It may be your business insurer that will be the one who will be your downfall in the event of an incident. Check your small print! Mind many of them don't understand the differences between the fixed electrical installations in the building and the electrical equipment of machinery. There are also a lot of electricians who struggle too! There is more to the electrical lark than meets the eye you know! ;) Grizzly, I am not even getting on to that soap box! I have very strong opinions on this subject which will get me banned from the forum. Just to say I HATE the misuse of the term engineer. I'm sure that if everyone who had even had a days H&S training called themselves a H&S consultant then there would be a riot on here. However, that is the only parallel I feel I can draw upon. I am not going to discuss or elaborate on this area any more.

Thank you guys and here in lies the problem - I identified that 17th edition wasn't the best route for us so what was? That was were I hit this issue that they is no obvious competence qualification for industrial machinery I take on board al the issues about the status of an 'engineer' I use the term simply because that is the role used at this site to describe their contract HNC or other are not a requirement. As always in our role, I am adviser to management and I give the best advice possible along with nudges, ideas, legislation and ACOP's guidance and what if scenario's thank you very much for input all , which has been very useful.

Listen to P.S. He really does know wat he is about. I teach 17th and inspection and testing etc For me,I'd handcuff the bloke and get a real electrician on the job