'It seems that one or two people can make a difference if they stand up and shout!!!' 'Personally, if someone is talking rubbish I could care less about their education or social standing.' 'It's a personal thing, but I don't automatically respect piety either' Agreed. To me, piety is anotherword for gullibility, but again that is a personal thing. But taking the above sentences together, albeit out of specific context, then you do get the feeling that those who bang their metaphorical fists on the table in this forum are those who I would not necessarily want to work with. Everyone knows stuff about H&S on this forum, some more than others, but those who sneer are beyond annoying and they deserve contempt. And about the above, taken as a whole, then it is the intent that matters. Arthur Scargill could shout as loud as anyone but I never listened - not because of my or his political beliefs, but because his agenda and politics were more important to him, I believe, than the people who he was supposedly fighting for. And that extends to this forum. If you don't agree with the mods, bear in mind that this is their forum therefore their rules have to be accepted. If you have nothing useful to offer, then why not just keep shtum? Your opinion is not really that interesting and nor is mine, as they are just that - opinions. People come to this forum for solid info, not opinions. Months go by when I do not log in to add to a thread and that is because I have nothing to offer or to add. Makes any of my posts more meaningful, I hope. No offence meant to any of the three peeps who I have quoted above. My comments are are not pointed specifically towards you. I don't know you and have no reason to dislike you or like you. All I can do is try to gain an insight into what you are like by your posts, and you know how successful that tends to be.

Betta, you make a very valid point about the content of these forums but the thing that struck me most in the mods message at the top of this was 'The moderating team do not moderate for the accuracy, technical or otherwise, of any contributions to these forums'. That is the reality for me. It has frustrated me at times. I often sit on my fingers. However, practically it means that we, the users, have to attempt to correct such inaccuracies. I see lots of responses in which the O.P. receives little more than public humiliation. The respondent can clearly see a potential problem with the plan and/or solutions offered by others. Is it then necessary to use judgemental terms and pour scorn on others? Or is it less intimidating and more helpful to simply state your case and leave the readers to decide for themselves as to the better solution? If you are shouting at people, or putting them down, they are most unlikely to hear what you are trying to say anyway. A recent example comes to mind where a user asked some questions about an area they openly admitted was beyond their usual scope. After some typically dismissive responses it became apparent that the person had no intentions of taking on the work without specialist support. He/she was simply exploring the matter. That is how easy it is to both misunderstand and be misunderstood on this forum. As to code of conduct breaches. Have you ever reported a member for the breaches you think have occurred on forum? Isn’t that the proper course of action rather than expecting someone else to do it for you? p48

Come on Pete, that is unfair, you are asking people on this forum who do not wish to identify themselves to do the right thing. Why do you expect people who do not share their identity to be anything other than bystander apathy personified? The only other people who tend to go online when not giving out their identity are grooming people(yes I know, deliberately inflammatory and not meant). PM me if you want to know who I am and where I work. Happy to share. Again, nothing personal to you. But I would be surprised if everyone did the right thing - reporting breaches of the code - all the time, irrespective who breached the code - any more than everyone using this forum rang the HSE every time they should have. Or the Police. I am not religious - I find it frankly ridiculous - but they have great music so there is some value in it. But if the people on the moral high ground who preach virtue lie, then what chance do we mere mortals have? People who live in glass houses.... If health and safety is not about its practitioners leading it, it is worthless. Whether it is IOSH or whoever I do not care, but do not ask those who are weak to be strong. It is a bit of a double edged sword, anonymity, as it allows me and others to give an opinion without being identified and potentially losing my job - there is a clause in my and other's contracts in relation to bringing the company into disrepute, which is what many posts could be seen as doing - but by accepting anonymous posts it also allows idiocy and bullying, and again, sneering and some serious condescension. Take your choice - post or not. But like facebook, it is publishing, and is subject to the libel laws.

Seriously? - I genuinely was brought up that respect had to be earned. I honestly think 'Respect has to be earned' is a cornerstone of society. But I'm aware that in the 'wishy washy' world we live in now that its flip reverse and everyone by default is 'great, talented and going to be a superstar' If this is what we want the primary schools to be teaching our kids then fine but its a harder bump when they realise its actually a dog eat dog world, that they are not so wonderful and the dole queue is over there. Nothing is given out on a plate anymore including respect.

It’s weird how the meaning of words has changed over the years. The only persons who were given automatic respect when I was younger were the older generation, treat your elders with respect. Common decency was given to everybody. Treat people how you want to treated. Old style values that have gone out of fashion now. Respect was earned. Now everybody wants respect, and common decency is nowhere to be seen.

Totally agree Jane. This is an internet forum. Most of us don't know each other personally and the only way we have to judge is by what and how people post. How exactly is a new poster supposed to "earn respect" in an Internet forum? I will always treat a new poster with courtesy. Yes they may be asking a stupid question but it's possible to point that out politely and maybe point them to a source of further advice such as the HSE website or direct links to documents. Some of the recent responses here to new posters (and in some cases not so new posters!)are arrogant, rude, aggressive and IMHO totally unnecessary. If the best response that a poster can make is to pour scorn on others and belittle them for not knowing something then maybe that poster would be better off not responding at all.

....and another who has sat on her hands for long enough. I must agree with the recent posts above stating that common decency and/or respect (take your pick) should not be something to be earned on this forum. Some of the posts which I have read recently have quite literally made me gasp....they were rude, unkind, unnecessary, GALACTICALLY arrogant and quite frankly could have been given as classic example of how NOT to deal with people. It may well be that the 'advice' (I use that term reservedly) being given was correct, but the way in which it was worded was designed to puff up the poster and thoroughly squash the OP.

MartinW And talking of 'not wanting to work with a few here', the same goes for me dear chap. It seems that few here really don't care for H&S just taking the money. Forever doing the minimum and keeping the butt covered. Such is life :-)

Hey man, I have no idea who 'Clairel' is, or what you mean by brave to be honest. My manner my be a little abrupt but then again it is usually called for when rubbish is being written about electrical matters particulary when people have been killed by pratts and a few here sit and talk safety and competence. A few of us are fighting for answers. Look me up on linkedin and help out? Do I worry about the words of anonymous 'people' hiding behind cardboard shields? Not a chance. Life is far too short to waste that kind of time :-) I offer good sound electrical advice (I hope) based on experience and qualifications (electrical and H&S) and in no-way am I a one trick pony (or jack of all trades) There I feel so much better now :-) Be happy :-)

"Do I worry about the words of anonymous 'people' hiding behind cardboard shields" I do love you bud! There's some real irony in that remark. I just wish you would chill out a bit. Sometimes my ears hurt 'cos you are shouting so loud then others feel the need to shout back. Pass me a pair of ear plugs please :-) p48

quote=Invictus] I also think that those people who are starting a response with 'This is not my background, or I don't know the answer but? Should sit back and think 'should I even reply'

Thanks Pete. Let them shout back mate. I just flick the Hearing aids off and read Persig. As for humour, I have none. Point is though, giving advice is one thing. Giving incorrect advice can kill someone sometimes and bad advice gets on the nerves of the qualified person who then needs to SHOUT, this then leads to someone taking a hump :-)

I could tell you but, of course, if I did I would have to kill you :-) Seriously, I don't see it as a problem. I was just sharing the irony of it all with Zimmy, p48

zimmy, now that was really funny. You amaze me - I have always thought that the Welsh should not be taught to talk, as I similarly feel the same with brummies and scousers, due to the damage that is being done to the spoken word. However, I am a geordie, so my opinions are not expected to be accepted widely if at all. But Persig? Led to the best joke I have heard for ages, for which I am grateful. Almost never laugh out loud at this forum as the maudlin codswallop that passes for some of the opinions makes me want to sometimes go into something more useful than H&S - such as applying to be Vicky Pryce's next hubby. As Edna says in the Simpsons - HA!

Should not the starting point be neutral? Respect is a sliding scale and though it can increase toward the positive, it can also decline sharply in the opposite direction. I don't 'respect those with whom I have no dealing, those I do not know, whom I may walk pass in a busy street, or even stand next to in a crowded place. It's neutral, and stays that way even when the individual asks a question, in exactly the same way as the stranger asking directions to the Post Office. I don't respect them. Nor do I disrespect them, it's entirely neutral. neither respect nor disrespect stems from stupid questions - I agree that there are few if any stupid questions since, to the questioner, it must be real and an answer is invited. But then there are the answers. These can be stupid, dangerous, misleading, incorrect in science, law and fact. Often presented as an ex-Cathedra statement (topical!), followed by a degree of sometimes bitter entrenchment and anger at challenge to error, in my book scores a very clear minus.

It seems that my last post got kicked off..truth hurts :-) or perhaps someone got the point of the pointless.

Respect, integrity, trust.... lets face it, how many of us can hand on heart say we are squeaky clean? Looking back through recent press, people naively respected J Saville, some Ministers of the Church, Teachers, Judges, MPs (expenses scandal), Doctors (Harold Shipman)... the list goes on and on. All supposedly with real 'standing in the community!' I don't readily respect anyone for the aforementioned reasons. I genuinely believe we live in a society that is barely civilised. The majority of people would be dishonest, break the law or self serving if they got the chance. We all approach things in a different way and always will do. Life, experience, upbringing etc all play their part in influencing the mind. So, I'd suggest the forum will always be the same as we are all different!

Earlier in this topic Ian B clearly signposted that there are two relevant uses for the purposes of this discussion. (i) Show respect towards (ii) Regard highly; think much of Whilst I recognise the dirty, horrid, corrupt world that some believe is life in the 21st century that perception is no reason to forget the first definition. Indeed if we do then have we not fallen to that level ourselves? I think it is vitally important that we distinguish between the two, especially in our professional lives p48

Shouldn’t option “a” be a minimum then moving to option “b” or its direct opposite after getting to know them / their views etc. As per the title of the thread option “a” should not be a challenge, but a starting point. #75 is correct but people are also able to demonstrate acts of kindness, with no thought of reward (other than the warm feeling inside from helping). Why else are people on here helping others, unless you feel people post answers because they are evil at heart and deliberately want to mislead or cause problems for others.