I don't believe it..... last few days have really done my head in. I'll be as brief as I can; Last week, went to a business I've known for years. Having a factory shutdown & some maintenance work. I've been called to manage some maintenance work. In the past when there's been a shutdown the requirement for hearing protection was relaxed.... no noise so was obviously the right decision. So I go & was not aware of a change, now a new H&S Manager, who had insisted no relaxing of the rule. I was picked up on the audit for not wearing hearing protection - took a noise reading of 46dB(A) & went to see the H&S Manager - who insisted the rule stays because its easier to manage. Two days later I visit another client, again known for years, and again a very recent appointment in terms of H&S Manager. Director asked me in as his new H&S Manger has still not addressed the 'holes' in terms of out-of-date risk assessments, no fire risk assessments & no asbestos management plan. Director wants me to see what the issues are. I arrive, introduced to him & he has a 'pop' at me for walking up the stairs without holding the handrail, despite nothing in my hands as I'd left my iPad & papers in his office and a further curt remark when I had a cup of coffee without a cup holder. Finally this morning a meeting with a new H&S Manager, per-arranged by the company Director, his new H&S Manager is not going down well with employees. I arrive & as previous visits drive straight into visitors car park...... Security man comes dashing over..... yes you've guessed it... "Can you reverse park sir"? I explain that if I do I won't be able to open my boot. Nevertheless he insists. So I obey the last order, only compounded by him insisting that he stands between me and the wall which makes my reverse sounders 'beep' and hence the reversing manoeuvre almost impossible. Eventually, after my numerous protestations, he gets put the way. Anyway, as predicted I couldn't open my boot. The Security man then showed real initiative and said 'ok, pull forward, I'll get an orange cone for the front of your vehicle, you switch your engine off, open the boot, get your stuff, restart your vehicle, reverse and jobs a god un". I then asked who brought in this ridiculous process and he told me it was the new H&S Manager. So I said "ok then, here's my business card, give it to him because I'm off home.... Have a nice day". I called the Director on my way home today - told him to get 'rid' and find someone who can keep him legally compliant... H&S 'bod' finishes this Friday. Interestingly, two of the positions are filled by ex Army. What is relevant to Armed Forces is not always the best way forward in civvy street. People will say that the 'devil is in the detail', ok but let's have the basics in first. Oh we'll, the sun is shining, I'm having a beer and almost keeping my sanity. Is it just me or do new appointees to H&S positions know something I don't.....?

C'mon, you didn't seriously get the guy sacked?

I can well imagine it was on the frustrating side.

Known & worked with the Director since 1986 -been a very good working relationship. I give him advice & he usually takes it - similarly vice versa. Having had the chat he was only looking for an excuse, besides when its you that could be in the dock you generally have to make the right decision... and quick. Anyway the company has a H&S Adviser who has some respect and that one can work with.

Totally correct walker. Yes final straw about right - been a few weeks apart I might have done something different, but not sure.

At the risk of upsetting the ex forces people out there. The problem of some ex service personnel adapting to a factory environment is not new. I can remember many years ago an excellent senior engineer being recruited on leaving the navy, he was a Fleet Chief Petty Officer, unfortunately he could not get his head round the different way of getting cooperation from the engineers who reported to him. Sadly he left the company by mutual agreement after about 6 months.

Sounds like an episode from the wright way

No information or induction process as to what rules were in place. However, even if I ad been given the information I would have suggested that he had 'bigger fish to fry' - see my original posting.

Victor as usual you have hit the nail on the head far to many people in positions they cannot manage. I am Ex Military and agree with the other posters (I have been out 20 years) you have to assist them in civilian ways. I do it daily as we have hired many Ex military in various positions from Operator to Management. If they listen they stay if they don,t they have to move on. Hope the beers are still flowing. Ta Alex

Victor, You seem to have had a bad day/week. From what you say all I can see is victims here; you and the poorly recruited ex soldiers who I would suggest were dropped in at the deep end by a recruiting manager who assumed that a “can do attitude” meant “does not need managing” – a real shame if the director you refer to was just looking for a reason to get rid. No criticism of you, but perhaps a word in the ear of the directors or whoever to point out that if you recruit a Sergeant Major you will get a Sergeant Major. If you recruit a Sergeant Major because he looks like he will develop into a good safety bod then he needs an arm round his shoulder and some monitoring and mentoring – perhaps that was the idea with bringing you in, but clearly, too late. Heathers comments simply reinforce the point that the problem is not with the person being recruited, it’s the people recruiting who in many cases are guessing at what they want and make poor decisions. Ex-forces are a group who receive a binary reputation, they’re either brilliant or utterly rubbish, which to be honest some deserve, but many, make that 99%, are good guys who want to do a good job and are, in the first months after leaving the force’s lost in a strange world where things are different, very different. Dismissing them out of hand does no one any good. Perhaps, if it’s not too late, you could go back to your friendly director and offer to have another go at establishing a working relationship and rapport with someone who would almost certainly welcome and appreciate a little guidance Jim Ex-Chief Petty Officer

Precisely my point. If I read Victor correctly these Ex-forces guys were recruited straight into the top job and then abandoned by the very people who recruited them. A waste of time, resources, budget on one side and a very bad experience on the other. Too many managers are poor managers and appalling leaders, but see my comment regarding binary opinions of ex forces previously... Jim

All the time I have read 'it's down to the site what the rules are' on these postings, so how come this time it's different, I don't agree with what was being put in place but it's up to the site to put in place safety measures that they feel appropriate 'even if we don't'. So a consultant arrives doesn't like the rules gets a man the sack, how is that OK? The consultant could of entered the site and spoke to the director explaining why he thought the safety measures were not required. He then could have advised the site advisor, although if it would have been me I would have taken no notice at all unless I felt that it was appropriate. The advisor might of spent months looking at valuye of having reverse parking and there are quite a few on here agree with him, and was not even given the opportunity to explain his decision, not that he should have needed too.

I did read that he hadn't been doing what I suppose he was paid to do also, but the fact that the company had not been entered this could not be asscertained, risk assessments fine but maybe he didn't have any fire experience and therefore this is something that the consultant could have highlighted but without going in and trying to asscertain all the facts then the H&S person never stood a chance.

I am with you Victor. Sometimes we post things which to us, in context, seem completely mad and we need to "vent our spleen" as it were, in total exasperation. But then we get the lambasting from other forum members who assume that you have told them the whole story (in three paragraphs) and therefore you are harsh and have no right to do this, that or the other. I will take your word for it that these isolated incidents are just the things you felt it worthy to mention and behind these seemingly simple "no brainers" there is a whole raft of other disasters that you did not have the time or space to cover. Sometimes we do come across people who are just not fit to be in their jobs and it doesn't have to be health and safety, there are good and bad in every job, sector and walk of life and sometimes we just have to take someone else's word for it that these people were incompetent because we weren't there. So don't stop posting because, however funny, there are morals to be learn from reading about other people's decisions and perhaps the next person who wants everyone to reverse into parking spaces will think twice about it.

Might be funny, but still cost someone there job, ok he was probably asked to leave for more than this, but if you read the postings on here there are a lot of advocates for reverse parking (I am not one). But I certainly wouldn't advocate everytime I disagreed with what another safety advisor had in place that he losers his job. Maybe I am doing something wrong and this is the way forward then at least as a consultant I would have a lot more work.

Sorry thoiught it read that victor had, had a chat with the director as he was a friend. Well for me a song comes to mind 'What have you done today to make you feel proud'

Many thanks for all your comments. I really would like to go into further detail but I am prevented from doing so as the individuals concerned may be able to identify themselves, which would be incorrect & against forum rules. However, can I please state that no snap decisions were made & there were no car parking or handrail issues prior to worry about that needed 'controlling'. The Managers have all the required qualifications. Decisions have been made/taken on what is right for two of the businesses - handrail & reverse parking - see my original posting. After further telephone conversations with the MDs I'm working to 'move them forward'. My whole point in this is; Directors / Senior Managers / HR - robust recruitment and ongoing employee management processes H&S Managers - risk assessment - prioritise - High, Medium, Low - Action Plans etc. Do I feel good about what I've highlighted and done - you bet I do - two of these businesses are not legally compliant and even more importantly, between them they employ 1600 people who are similarly at risk. I can sleep in my bed at night safe in the knowledge I've got my priorities in the right order. On a lighter note, the reverse parking issue has meant that me & the wife can't look at each other without laughing - didn't get it yesterday as I guess I was a bit wound up. Heard today it was observed - OMG. So out with friends tonight, guess what the topic of conversation will be......

Don't think so - we are out with Patrick & Pippa ;-)