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Steve e ashton  
#1 Posted : 24 July 2013 16:10:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Does anyone in this forum use the Flesch Kincaid (F-K) Grade Level tests or other 'reading ease' tool on their documentation? To what purpose and with what effect? Does anyone know of any objective measure for 'plain English' other than the 'crystal mark'?

As someone recently returned to consultancy, I am determined that clients should recognise our work as being written in simple, plain English. I am considering a requirement in our SLAs that none of our reports will be above F-K grade level 14. My own output is hitting this as a personal target although I've had to rethink and edit some of my documents. I think this could be an objectively measurable USP.

I have been reviewing a number of documents on behalf of clients. It is difficult to pass judgement on 'readability' without seeming to be incredibly patronising and hyper-critical (and perhaps touting for further business). The Flesch Kincaid test gives objective evidence of what I am complaining of. I am genuinely appalled at how obscure and convoluted the language in much of the documentation can be. Unfortunately much of it has been prepared by H&S consultants. Some 'induction leaflets' and policy documents are written in language so painfully twisted the authors probably couldn't understand it themselves. I certainly couldn't! Most of it is written in legalese rather than English, and the rest just appears to be gibberish.

These H&S consultants have charged for documents their clients could not possibly hope to understand. I would like to post excerpts on here from some of the worst documents (in hopes the authors would recognise their own work and be ashamed) but I suspect the mods would feel obliged to step in very quickly.

For anyone who cares to know – this posting achieves grade level of 9.6 according to MS Word…

If anyone is using this type of analysis - I'd really like to hear your experiences.

Thanks, Steve
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 24 July 2013 16:29:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I had a go using the Flesch-Kincaid (F-K) Grade Level analysis supposedly inc in MS-Word and found I could not get it to work. Perhaps I misunderstood the instructions!

Steve e ashton  
#3 Posted : 24 July 2013 16:39:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

I'm not sure what I did - but in MS-Word is doing it for me....

Its under the 'spelling and grammar' checker (it needed something tweaked which I found in the online 'help' section) and it does the job fairly simply. My only real concern is that it gives me the statistics, but I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable to check the numbers... It may be lying and giving me a big dose of garbage.

Steve
sadlass  
#4 Posted : 24 July 2013 19:22:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sadlass

You need to tick a box - see help.

I have used the FOG index occasionally when I was testing myself. There are online tools you can use to apply whatever method you prefer or all. Out of interest I just ran some text from a classic local government H&S missive to get the following:
Flesch Reading Ease scored your text: impossible to comprehend.
Gunning Fog scored your text: EXTREMELY difficult to read.

An article from todays Sun scored 'fairly easy to read' which is the level the old Scriptographic leaflets used to aim for.

Gratifyingly some of my own recent work came out much more comprehensible, but it is difficult realistically to get below a certain level when using words like assessment, procedure, manual handling, equipment, etc. Having said that, the Highway Code did hold the Plain English crystal mark, and is full of technical words.

Writing in plain English is something I have worked on over the years. It is not an area which gets a lot of attention - critisism, yes, but little about improving, so I commend your interest.

There is a bit more to good simple writing than just using these scoring tools, as the Plain English campaign will emphasise. It's about getting into a style which then becomes a habit. However, the tools can be a good specific measure and help with getting there.


leadbelly  
#5 Posted : 24 July 2013 19:30:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
leadbelly

Maybe it's because I started out as a scientist but I write a lot in the passive (x was observed, etc) rather than the active (I saw x, etc.) Otherwise, I think I write in clear English.
For many years, I reviewed reports from others for the standard of English as well as the technical content.

LB
KieranD  
#6 Posted : 25 July 2013 05:53:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

While the aspiration of communicating in language that is 'plain and simple' is desirable, you risk confusing the good with the ideal, for three reasons

1. No measure even approaches a high level of validity across all organisations

2. Unless you publicise very prominently the limitations of any measure of 'readability' with any organisation to whom you recommend it and unless you also advise and enable them to gather valid data on reading capabilities of all employees and workers, you risk enmeshing them in claim of unlawful discrimination

3. As research at the centre for security studies based at University College London and London School of Economics and other universities has indicated, the complexities of readability and, more broadly, of usability design go far, far beyond those measured the scale you indicate in the array of I.T. and social media that has mushroomed over recent decades.

In practice, this implies that well-designed simple research projects about readability are needed before valid standards are viable.
John J  
#7 Posted : 25 July 2013 12:16:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

What's an SLA?
bob youel  
#8 Posted : 25 July 2013 12:37:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Legal friends of mine have always said that putting in easily understandable and presented plain English can get you in trouble - Think about it; and is that one of the reasons politicians etc. never answer questions directly
Steve e ashton  
#9 Posted : 25 July 2013 12:47:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Sorry John: SLA="Service Level Agreement" (What we will do for the money you pay us - how much, how often, how quick...)

Bob: Your legal friends may be risk averse - But I don't think that helps people to understand what they are saying. My clients need, want and deserve (and pay for) direct answers to direct questions. (I could say the same about politicians but thats an argument for another day)

Kieran:
I appreciate your concern, but I don’t think I am in any danger of confusing the documents I have reviewed with either ‘good’ or ‘ideal’. There may be some room for argument over whether they are “awful” or just “very bad”.

As example the following sentence appears as the first paragraph of an induction booklet intended for issue to all new starts. The business employs predominantly low grade manual labour and has a largely immigrant workforce:

“As an employer we are required to retained personal information pertaining to your employment, we endeavour and are fully committed to meet our legal obligations to ensure your Health and Safety at Work and to meet the requirements of the Data Protection Act 1998 in the obtaining, retention, use, access, disclosure and final disposal of said information.”

Inductees are expected to sign to accept they have been issued with and understand the booklet. I think it means “We need you to give us some information about yourself. We will be careful with the information you give us. We think your safety is important”. But I’m not entirely certain. I think any claim of unlawful discrimination is more likely to come from someone who has been asked to sign this but doesn’t have a chance of understanding it than it is from my own comments.

And the following excerpt is the first paragraph from a health and safety policy for a school…
“The Board of Governors notes the provisions of the Health and Safety at Work, etc Act 1974 which states that it is the duty of every employer to conduct his or her business in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons who are not in his or her employment but who may be affected by it are not exposed to risks to their health and safety, and accepts that it has a responsibility to take all reasonably practicable steps to secure the health and safety of pupils, staff and others using the school premises or participating in school-sponsored activities.”

I could observe that the wording is excessively obscure and convoluted – or I could comment that with an F-K Grade Level of 44.3 it will be impenetrable to virtually all the UK population. The first sounds like snobbery (inverted snobbery?) the second suggests a more objective analysis and is likely to be more acceptable to a client whose documents I am criticising. (Or I could offer a redraft that is written in simple, plain English – but a full re-write of a sixty page document will take a lot of time the client may not be willing to pay for…)

I understand the need for ‘well designed, simple research projects’. Until they have been done (by the academics who do these things) I need something that is available now, is easy to use, and gives me a simple, practical measure to assess the clarity and ‘simplicity’ of documents we produce or review. The US Naval research that led to the Flesch Kincaid Grade Level offerings may not satisfy a UK academic but it is good enough for me until something better comes along.

As food for thought, perhaps, the text from your posting achieves a grade level score of 19.5 according to my MS word analysis. That equates (very, very roughly) to being comprehensible to someone with 19.5 years schooling. Postdoctoral academics aside – there are very few people in the UK workforce who have been in education that long. Most of us need to communicate effectively and efficiently with a general population who struggle to read or understand anything much above grade level 12 – and some even lower.

Bottom line for me is that I believe we (the health and safety profession) need to act as "interpreters" of the standards and laws for people without the benefit of our education and training. We should not simply regurgitate the same old legal phrases (so far as is reasonably practicable, suitable and sufficient, where necessary for reasons of health and safety) all the time. My experience has shown me time and time again that when we do this people simply switch off and do not understand!

Steve
SP900308  
#10 Posted : 25 July 2013 14:19:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

Steve, very interesting, I had not heard of such a thing until your post.

Whilst studying the NEBOSH Diploma, my tutor suggested that we consider the exam moderator to know nothing of the subject of H&S and write our answers accordingly. However, when reviewing the examiners responses, they appear to be written by industry experts (chemical, processing, electrical engineers etc) and in a language that accords with your posting.

In fact, I checked two extracts from NEBOSH examiners reports (into word) they scored:

Reading ease 31.5%
Reading ease 35.5%

If my understanding of the scoring system is correct?
KieranD  
#11 Posted : 25 July 2013 15:21:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Steve

It's far, far from academic to comply with The Equality Act 2010

Is that simple enough,sir?
Steve e ashton  
#12 Posted : 25 July 2013 15:24:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

SP:
I believe you need to write for your audience and for a purpose.

The difference I see is that when answering a NEBOSH question your audience knows as much as (if not more than) you about the subject. You are trying to show how much you know, so need to include as many (correct) legal and technical phrases as you can. (You need to show you have remembered the detail)

Whereas when you write a report or a training package or whatever for a client (or for your employing organisation) the audience does not know as much about Health and Safety as you, and may not be highly educated in any field. And you are communicating so that they can understand what they need to do or not do.

On that basis, I would write in very different ways for NEBOSH answers and worker induction booklets. And I would try to use 'plain and simple' language for the latter - even though it may lose some of its rigorously precise meaning as worded in law. (Although the regular debate on here about what we need to do to comply with one law or another suggests that the laws themselves are not always written with the clarity / accuracy we might hope for!).

The Flesch Reading Ease score is different from the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level Score. As I understand it, F-K Grade level starts with 'simple' just below 4 and goes up as things get more difficult. The Flesch reading ease scores start around 100 for 'easy' and lower as the text gets harder (although I don't think they are 'percentages')... I believe that scores in the low 30s would equate to someting 'not easy' but I'm not an expert.

Steve
jwk  
#13 Posted : 25 July 2013 15:32:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Steve, this is a fascinating post. We have to reach our audience, and the audience at the end of the day has to applaud, it's not a lot of use if they can't understand the script though.

I try and write my documents in plain English and I encourage (OK, brutally compel ;-)) my team to do the same but still, still. I found a FOG checking site online (couldn't get the FK thing to work on my laptop, I think the on-demand spell-check may have been turned off by our IT people) and put all our guidance documents through it. And guess what, we are asking for sixth form or better education for almost all our documents, and this in the care/charity retail sectors which are notoriously low paid low-entry sectors. Quite a puzzler really, we will just have to do better,

John
Safety Smurf  
#14 Posted : 25 July 2013 15:37:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

I've recently reviewed the exam question papers I set our retail managers and reworded some of the questions. Guess what. The pass rate went up.
Steve e ashton  
#15 Posted : 25 July 2013 16:51:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Kieran:

In terms of the Equality Act - I would maintain that it is objectively justifiable to insist that all appointees for a role must be able to understand the safety information and the written instructions they are given. If we translate documents into foreign languages to make them understandable to foreign speaking applicants - then we risk actually discriminating against english-speaking applicants (not a protected characteristic, but likely to raise eyeborws at least) if our 'English Language' versions are incomprehensible to the english speaking audience.

If we dont translate the documents (if we insist that reading and understanding English is objectively justifiable for safety reasons) then I believe there is far less chance of being accused of unlawful discrimination if the language we use is kept as simple as possible.

Interesting subject. I didn't think it would generate so much discussion.

Steve
Steve e ashton  
#16 Posted : 26 July 2013 12:37:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

On the Beeb today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23462394

"Policies will no longer be "delivered" and there will be less "collaboration" and "transformation" in Whitehall, if the government gets its way.

A new style guide on the www.gov.uk website warns against "vague" jargon and buzzwords as well as using too many metaphors in government announcements."

I swear I didn't know this was coming when I posted the first on this thread!
Ron Hunter  
#17 Posted : 26 July 2013 13:05:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

It seems I have the same problems as Leadbelly. Whilst I aspire to plain language and use of active sentences, a lifetime of writing engineering specifications and technical documents is a hard habit to break.
I like to think I'm getting better, but it certainly isn't easy!
Problems tend to be compounded where we try Peer Review - our Peers tend to have the same mind-set!
Nicola Kemmery  
#18 Posted : 26 July 2013 15:37:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Nicola Kemmery

It is indeed a skill and I have found that many H&SW professionals are excellent at writing reports and technical papers - but find it hard to tailor their style for the audience.

I have never used any of these online systems - however, they do sound interesting.

My check has always been to give the document to a non-technical person and ask for feedback. I have also been lucky to work in companies where we have internal communications teams who have helped to simplify documents.

Many years ago I did participate in an Effective English course which I found very helpful. It was run by the broadcaster Mark Radcliffe's father who was an ex-journalist and happy pedant!
gramsay  
#19 Posted : 26 July 2013 20:27:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay

Steve this is a great topic, and well done for your efforts.

Your comment about understanding is dead on - if we write something technically beautiful and legally robust we've just wasted our time if our audience can't understand it.

Amongst the reminders, cheat-sheets and charts on my office wall is a copy of that great Einstein quote:

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

Communication is vital in our various roles. If we make written documents designed to be understood without additional coaching we better be damn sure people can make sense of them! I know exactly how you feel reading some of these impenetrable monsters.

Good luck
pete48  
#20 Posted : 27 July 2013 12:47:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

I agree that there is far too much inappropriate documentation used as part of the training, instruction and information flows to employees. However, there is a trap in the use of such formulae. They cannot actually measure how comprehensible a text is. Furthermore they do not guarantee better results. For example, much of our H&S documentation has a very strong legal imperative attached to its purpose. Not surprising then that much is issued in that style. If we recognise, for a moment, that the purpose of the document is to withstand legal scrutiny is it then more understandable? If we then expect every employee to ‘read and understand’ that same document the problem is immediately apparent.
The mathematical formulas are generally based around the average words to a sentence and the average syllables used per word. As such, they tend to reward short sentences made up of short words. Such short sentences and words can make documents easier to read but they do not tell us how likely it is that a document is comprehensible. Some studies suggest that the use of shorter words and shorter sentences may not be as much help as reconstructing the sentences and using familiar vocabulary.
So perhaps what is far more important is choosing a style that is relevant to the purpose of the document. The use of such formulae in the hope that it will lead to 'plain and simple' may be too simplistic. Perhaps it is more useful to say that documents should always be in a style that is relevant, direct and familiar. Above all it must always recognise the purpose of the document and the intended audience. Too simple can be as disastrous as too complex after all.

Finally as a bit of fun. Try checking this next paragraph.
Fall Humpty had Dumpty great a. King’s all horses the men and King’s all the.
FRE 90.0% FKGL 4.4.

So it is easier to read than my posting and only requires grade 4-5 education. Plain and simple?

p48
bob youel  
#21 Posted : 29 July 2013 08:07:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

And what about those who do not read nor write? This situation arrises a lot in some areas so the only way is some sort of verbal etc. communication system
Corfield35303  
#22 Posted : 29 July 2013 16:35:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Corfield35303

Steve - an excellent topic!

In previous roles I have been strongly encouraged to improve the clarity of my written work, presumably because some other previous H&S people did not write very clearly. I still feel that sometimes we write with too many commas, too much jargon and sprinkle it with technical and legal mumbo-jumbo.....

I'm guessing that measuring this will be difficult as these systems are subjective and there is little in the way of agreement, as this thread shows. However a starting point for me was to get colleagues not involved with safety to critically review my work. I also made sure to run it past a critic with dyslexia.

That said it would be good to be able to measure the readability of our written work and this is certainly something I'll look into!

andybz  
#23 Posted : 30 July 2013 10:49:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
andybz

I totally agree that there is significant scope to improve the quality of written work. I can see that reading grade measures have a role, but we have to accept that it is not the full picture.

It has already been said, but a key element is considering what the end user needs. There seems to be an aim to always include everything detail, and this means our documents inevitably get longer and less readable. The reality is that in some circumstances end users need very simple documentation on a subject, whilst others will require and can deal with more detail.

I think this video on Youtube gives a very amusing illustration of how messages can get over complicated -
boblewis  
#24 Posted : 31 July 2013 11:15:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

The complexity of some of these posts makes my head reel. I thought it was about the use of plain english. Short sentences with few subclauses make for best understanding.

Bob
Steve e ashton  
#25 Posted : 31 July 2013 16:23:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Anybody tried using the Plain English Campaign 'drivel defence' tool? It looks interesting...

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/drivel-defence.html

But my work pc won't allow Javascript to open new windows - so I can't load it... If its worth doing though I may be able to persuade my network admin to allow changes...

Any drivel defence users out there?
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