Rank: Forum user
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Hi All,
Currently going through the process of IMS (18001 / 14001), we are currently working on our legal register and I am seeing if any one is willing to share theirs that has undergone an audit so I can check that we are on the right track with regards to content, depth and format.
PM me if you are able to assist or any useful web links (Have used the search facility on here and it keeps freezing!!).
Thank you in advance
Rob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Search function is great isn't Rob- glad I am not the only one that suffers.
I will pm you.
Stuart
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Rank: Forum user
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Thank Stuart,
Not a great search function !!
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Rank: Super forum user
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rob35 wrote:Hi All,
Currently going through the process of IMS (18001 / 14001), we are currently working on our legal register and I am seeing if any one is willing to share theirs that has undergone an audit so I can check that we are on the right track with regards to content, depth and format.
PM me if you are able to assist or any useful web links (Have used the search facility on here and it keeps freezing!!).
Thank you in advance
Rob
Why are you creating a register? There is no requirement to do so. There are several ways to comply with 4.5,2 and 4.3.2. As soon as you go down the register road, you have to manage it constantly. Think, audits, inspections, tours, general observations and trend analysis. Build a picture of compliance over time and and link with your activities and record the findings - good and bad. Link your objectives and targets to continual .
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Try the HSE website and type in the search 'legal register' then pick what is approprite to your setting.
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Rank: Super forum user
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This any good to you:
ec.europa.eu/environment/emas/toolkit/downloads/5_2_legal_register.rtf
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garfield esq wrote:rob35 wrote:Hi All,
Currently going through the process of IMS (18001 / 14001), we are currently working on our legal register and I am seeing if any one is willing to share theirs that has undergone an audit so I can check that we are on the right track with regards to content, depth and format.
PM me if you are able to assist or any useful web links (Have used the search facility on here and it keeps freezing!!).
Thank you in advance
Rob
Why are you creating a register? There is no requirement to do so. There are several ways to comply with 4.5,2 and 4.3.2. As soon as you go down the register road, you have to manage it constantly. Think, audits, inspections, tours, general observations and trend analysis. Build a picture of compliance over time and and link with your activities and record the findings - good and bad. Link your objectives and targets to continual .
Garfield, can you expand? Everyone I have spoken to from fellow peers, consultants and our recent auditor require a legal register for 4.3.2 (and 4.5.2.1 / 2) - Legal and other requirements - stating 'Demonstrate you have considered all legal and other requirements etc etc'
If I can not do it, but still demonstrate compliance to 4.3.2 that would be great, but audits, tours, trend analysis for me falls under different sections as more monitoring of the system.
Thank you in advance and to all that have sent a PM, it is all of great help
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rob,
There is no requirement for a legal register. Don't be press-ganged by anyone, including your certification body, to go down this route. Its a myth. Compliance can be achieved by a variety of methods, refer to 18002.
A variety of inputs can be used to assess compliance, including:
—— audits,
—— the results of regulatory inspections,
—— analysis of legal and other requirements,
—— reviews of documents and/or records of incidents and risk
assessments,
—— interviews,
—— facility, equipment and area inspections,
—— project or work reviews,
—— analysis of test results from monitoring and testing,
—— facility tours and/or direct observations.
In addition, keep records of the above and include the significant stuff in management reviews (in whatever form they take).
There are plenty of FOC resources that will provide legislation / sector specific updates.
HSE
IOSH
CEDREC
EA
SEPA
You can also link up to OPSI for reference to legislation direct.
Entirely up to you, however registers are just another thing to go out of date....
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We should not forget that identification of legislation RELEVANT to the work is the requirement so general lists from HSE etc etc do not cut it on theor own - there needs to be a selection methodology in the procedure. Once established then use audits to show that you are keeping up to date re legislation.
Compliance is a separate matter - Once you know the legislation applicable the key matters applicable to your business need to be identified and evidence produced that compliance is ongoing. This is not simply a periodic audit but also menas day to day monitoring activity evidence.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree with Garfield, but persuading cert bodies is different.
Had a list for 14001, no list for 18001. I was able to use my qualifications as the basis we new what legislation applied to us. Same argument did not work for the Environmental guy. I actually produced a list for H&S in the end ( just for the hell of it)
Listed the legislation in a spreadsheet and noted the parts that applied to the company and what we did or what other system document covered it. Also noted the all important review date.
By the way OPSI is now Legislation.gov.uk
Chris
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Garfield - Thank you for the clarification, personally, with what we currently have set up and what peers have provided, I am going to go through the legal register exercise, whether we use it or not is something we will debate with the auditors.
Thank you all
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Consider buying compliance software that will create the register for you. All you have to do is answer a few questions about your business and the software will put together a register of all relevant legislation. It will also keep you updated with upcoming changes in legislation etc making it easy to manage. There's nothing worse than trying to maintain a spreadsheet.
We use Simplifi Solutions but there are other packages available. Most of which will offer you a free trial.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I just have a list of all the Laws, Regulations and Orders that apply to our organisation and a link to how to find the latest version on the Legislation.gov.uk site. This is part of my annual plan so it is updated as least once a year and that seemed to satisfy the auditor for 18001 and 14001.
However, we do also have a full legal compliance audit programme and management system audit programme, inspections etc. to back this up so it is quite a comprehensive system.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hilary
As a pedantic auditor I would select one of the list that probably does not apply to your business and ask you for evidence of compliance. The answer that it does not apply means that you have created a non conformance in some manner. Total lists are of no use whatsoever.
My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements.
Bob
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boblewis wrote:Hilary
As a pedantic auditor I would select one of the list that probably does not apply to your business and ask you for evidence of compliance. The answer that it does not apply means that you have created a non conformance in some manner. Total lists are of no use whatsoever.
My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements.
Bob
I had better take that one out then....... ;-)
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boblewis
My post did say a list of:
"all the Laws, Regulations and Orders that apply to our organisation"
and at the moment we have no badgers.
Please rest assured that if badgers move into the site I will make allowance for this and add said Act to our list of applicable Laws.
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hilary wrote:boblewis
My post did say a list of:
"all the Laws, Regulations and Orders that apply to our organisation"
and at the moment we have no badgers.
Please rest assured that if badgers move into the site I will make allowance for this and add said Act to our list of applicable Laws.
Is that good enough though? surely surely you need to have a contingency plan for the possibility that badgers might infiltrate your site ( and what about bats in your belfry?)
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boblewis wrote:Hilary
As a pedantic auditor I would select one of the list that probably does not apply to your business and ask you for evidence of compliance. The answer that it does not apply means that you have created a non conformance in some manner. Total lists are of no use whatsoever.
My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements.
Bob
We had to change our legislation register when an auditor asked a similar question about being compliant with legislation that does not apply to the organization. All they were after was evidence that we had reviewed the legislation and then determined that it did not apply.
Never went quite as far as the protection of badgers but ultimately made the register a lot bigger than it possibly needs to be.
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Rob, if you email me at davidgault76@hotmail.co.uk I will send you a copy of one I have used for 18001. As indicated by others here there are other ways of dealing with the situation but you may find the example helpful. I agree with the comments on maintaining it etc so once it is emailed across the rest is up to you.
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cheifinspector wrote:boblewis wrote:
My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements.
We had to change our legislation register when an auditor asked a similar question about being compliant with legislation that does not apply to the organization. All they were after was evidence that we had reviewed the legislation and then determined that it did not apply.
I'd be more inclined to change auditor.
It's a list of all the legislation that applies, not a list of all the legislation. I'm not going to read every item of legislation and document that it does not apply.
(I hope your auditor's employer has been through the A14 Trunk Road (Junction 55 Copdock Mill Interchange, Ipswich, Suffolk) Eastbound Entry Slip Road (Temporary Prohibition of Traffic) Order 2013 and documented that it doesn't apply to their operations.)
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Rob,
I have PM'd you.
Regards
Clive
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achrn wrote:cheifinspector wrote:boblewis wrote:
My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements.
We had to change our legislation register when an auditor asked a similar question about being compliant with legislation that does not apply to the organization. All they were after was evidence that we had reviewed the legislation and then determined that it did not apply.
I'd be more inclined to change auditor.
It's a list of all the legislation that applies, not a list of all the legislation. I'm not going to read every item of legislation and document that it does not apply.
(I hope your auditor's employer has been through the A14 Trunk Road (Junction 55 Copdock Mill Interchange, Ipswich, Suffolk) Eastbound Entry Slip Road (Temporary Prohibition of Traffic) Order 2013 and documented that it doesn't apply to their operations.)
My thoughts exactly. we didn't have to list every item of legislation in force just now. Only the ones relevant to our industry. A lot of this is also environmental legislation as the register is a combination of H&S and E.
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Rank: New forum user
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IMHO just a list would not suffice for a 3rd party audit.
ISO 14001 4.3.2 expresses "a) identify and have access to the applicable legal requirements and other" and "b) determine how these apply to the organisations environmental aspects".
Therefore an organisation needs to evidence how it has identified legal and other requirements and what it does to comply with these.
Furthermore 4.5.2 basically says an organisation should periodically evaluate: Does the organisation know all of its legal and other requirements and is it complying with them.
I would also ask for a different auditor :-0
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On one of my projects we haven't awarded the badger mitigation contract yet, but we do have ground investigation, invasive archaeology, bat + red squirrel mitigation and hydrological and hydrogeological monitoring contracts all out of site at present. Not sure whether they've finished demolishing a school (have finished the asbestos removal).
So if we decide to maintain a legislative register, it would be a very long document!
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But Peter you should really do this exercise on a project by project basis - construction always requires such a site specific approach to the identification of legislation relevant to the work. Do not forget the newts and adders also like one recent job. Newt fences and adder traps are wonderful:-)
Bob
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