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Rob35  
#1 Posted : 06 August 2013 15:32:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rob35

Hi All, Currently going through the process of IMS (18001 / 14001), we are currently working on our legal register and I am seeing if any one is willing to share theirs that has undergone an audit so I can check that we are on the right track with regards to content, depth and format. PM me if you are able to assist or any useful web links (Have used the search facility on here and it keeps freezing!!). Thank you in advance Rob
stuie  
#2 Posted : 06 August 2013 15:41:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stuie

Search function is great isn't Rob- glad I am not the only one that suffers. I will pm you. Stuart
Rob35  
#3 Posted : 06 August 2013 15:50:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rob35

Thank Stuart, Not a great search function !!
Garfield Esq  
#4 Posted : 06 August 2013 23:12:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Garfield Esq

rob35 wrote:
Hi All, Currently going through the process of IMS (18001 / 14001), we are currently working on our legal register and I am seeing if any one is willing to share theirs that has undergone an audit so I can check that we are on the right track with regards to content, depth and format. PM me if you are able to assist or any useful web links (Have used the search facility on here and it keeps freezing!!). Thank you in advance Rob
Why are you creating a register? There is no requirement to do so. There are several ways to comply with 4.5,2 and 4.3.2. As soon as you go down the register road, you have to manage it constantly. Think, audits, inspections, tours, general observations and trend analysis. Build a picture of compliance over time and and link with your activities and record the findings - good and bad. Link your objectives and targets to continual .
Invictus  
#5 Posted : 07 August 2013 08:58:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Try the HSE website and type in the search 'legal register' then pick what is approprite to your setting.
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 07 August 2013 13:10:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

This any good to you: ec.europa.eu/environment/emas/toolkit/downloads/5_2_legal_register.rtf‎
Rob35  
#7 Posted : 07 August 2013 14:40:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rob35

garfield esq wrote:
rob35 wrote:
Hi All, Currently going through the process of IMS (18001 / 14001), we are currently working on our legal register and I am seeing if any one is willing to share theirs that has undergone an audit so I can check that we are on the right track with regards to content, depth and format. PM me if you are able to assist or any useful web links (Have used the search facility on here and it keeps freezing!!). Thank you in advance Rob
Why are you creating a register? There is no requirement to do so. There are several ways to comply with 4.5,2 and 4.3.2. As soon as you go down the register road, you have to manage it constantly. Think, audits, inspections, tours, general observations and trend analysis. Build a picture of compliance over time and and link with your activities and record the findings - good and bad. Link your objectives and targets to continual .
Garfield, can you expand? Everyone I have spoken to from fellow peers, consultants and our recent auditor require a legal register for 4.3.2 (and 4.5.2.1 / 2) - Legal and other requirements - stating 'Demonstrate you have considered all legal and other requirements etc etc' If I can not do it, but still demonstrate compliance to 4.3.2 that would be great, but audits, tours, trend analysis for me falls under different sections as more monitoring of the system. Thank you in advance and to all that have sent a PM, it is all of great help
Garfield Esq  
#8 Posted : 07 August 2013 18:43:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Garfield Esq

Rob, There is no requirement for a legal register. Don't be press-ganged by anyone, including your certification body, to go down this route. Its a myth. Compliance can be achieved by a variety of methods, refer to 18002. A variety of inputs can be used to assess compliance, including: —— audits, —— the results of regulatory inspections, —— analysis of legal and other requirements, —— reviews of documents and/or records of incidents and risk assessments, —— interviews, —— facility, equipment and area inspections, —— project or work reviews, —— analysis of test results from monitoring and testing, —— facility tours and/or direct observations. In addition, keep records of the above and include the significant stuff in management reviews (in whatever form they take). There are plenty of FOC resources that will provide legislation / sector specific updates. HSE IOSH CEDREC EA SEPA You can also link up to OPSI for reference to legislation direct. Entirely up to you, however registers are just another thing to go out of date....
boblewis  
#9 Posted : 07 August 2013 21:11:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

We should not forget that identification of legislation RELEVANT to the work is the requirement so general lists from HSE etc etc do not cut it on theor own - there needs to be a selection methodology in the procedure. Once established then use audits to show that you are keeping up to date re legislation. Compliance is a separate matter - Once you know the legislation applicable the key matters applicable to your business need to be identified and evidence produced that compliance is ongoing. This is not simply a periodic audit but also menas day to day monitoring activity evidence. Bob
chris42  
#10 Posted : 08 August 2013 09:04:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

I agree with Garfield, but persuading cert bodies is different. Had a list for 14001, no list for 18001. I was able to use my qualifications as the basis we new what legislation applied to us. Same argument did not work for the Environmental guy. I actually produced a list for H&S in the end ( just for the hell of it) Listed the legislation in a spreadsheet and noted the parts that applied to the company and what we did or what other system document covered it. Also noted the all important review date. By the way OPSI is now Legislation.gov.uk Chris
Rob35  
#11 Posted : 08 August 2013 11:15:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rob35

Garfield - Thank you for the clarification, personally, with what we currently have set up and what peers have provided, I am going to go through the legal register exercise, whether we use it or not is something we will debate with the auditors. Thank you all
Seabee81  
#12 Posted : 08 August 2013 11:16:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Seabee81

Consider buying compliance software that will create the register for you. All you have to do is answer a few questions about your business and the software will put together a register of all relevant legislation. It will also keep you updated with upcoming changes in legislation etc making it easy to manage. There's nothing worse than trying to maintain a spreadsheet. We use Simplifi Solutions but there are other packages available. Most of which will offer you a free trial.
hilary  
#13 Posted : 08 August 2013 12:15:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

I just have a list of all the Laws, Regulations and Orders that apply to our organisation and a link to how to find the latest version on the Legislation.gov.uk site. This is part of my annual plan so it is updated as least once a year and that seemed to satisfy the auditor for 18001 and 14001. However, we do also have a full legal compliance audit programme and management system audit programme, inspections etc. to back this up so it is quite a comprehensive system.
boblewis  
#14 Posted : 08 August 2013 19:24:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Hilary As a pedantic auditor I would select one of the list that probably does not apply to your business and ask you for evidence of compliance. The answer that it does not apply means that you have created a non conformance in some manner. Total lists are of no use whatsoever. My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements. Bob
Rob35  
#15 Posted : 09 August 2013 10:24:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rob35

boblewis wrote:
Hilary As a pedantic auditor I would select one of the list that probably does not apply to your business and ask you for evidence of compliance. The answer that it does not apply means that you have created a non conformance in some manner. Total lists are of no use whatsoever. My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements. Bob
I had better take that one out then....... ;-)
hilary  
#16 Posted : 30 August 2013 10:17:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

boblewis My post did say a list of: "all the Laws, Regulations and Orders that apply to our organisation" and at the moment we have no badgers. Please rest assured that if badgers move into the site I will make allowance for this and add said Act to our list of applicable Laws.
A Kurdziel  
#17 Posted : 30 August 2013 10:27:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

hilary wrote:
boblewis My post did say a list of: "all the Laws, Regulations and Orders that apply to our organisation" and at the moment we have no badgers. Please rest assured that if badgers move into the site I will make allowance for this and add said Act to our list of applicable Laws.
Is that good enough though? surely surely you need to have a contingency plan for the possibility that badgers might infiltrate your site ( and what about bats in your belfry?)
cheifinspector  
#18 Posted : 30 August 2013 11:13:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cheifinspector

boblewis wrote:
Hilary As a pedantic auditor I would select one of the list that probably does not apply to your business and ask you for evidence of compliance. The answer that it does not apply means that you have created a non conformance in some manner. Total lists are of no use whatsoever. My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements. Bob
We had to change our legislation register when an auditor asked a similar question about being compliant with legislation that does not apply to the organization. All they were after was evidence that we had reviewed the legislation and then determined that it did not apply. Never went quite as far as the protection of badgers but ultimately made the register a lot bigger than it possibly needs to be.
DavidGault  
#19 Posted : 30 August 2013 11:15:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DavidGault

Rob, if you email me at davidgault76@hotmail.co.uk I will send you a copy of one I have used for 18001. As indicated by others here there are other ways of dealing with the situation but you may find the example helpful. I agree with the comments on maintaining it etc so once it is emailed across the rest is up to you.
achrn  
#20 Posted : 30 August 2013 12:03:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

cheifinspector wrote:
boblewis wrote:
My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements.
We had to change our legislation register when an auditor asked a similar question about being compliant with legislation that does not apply to the organization. All they were after was evidence that we had reviewed the legislation and then determined that it did not apply.
I'd be more inclined to change auditor. It's a list of all the legislation that applies, not a list of all the legislation. I'm not going to read every item of legislation and document that it does not apply. (I hope your auditor's employer has been through the A14 Trunk Road (Junction 55 Copdock Mill Interchange, Ipswich, Suffolk) Eastbound Entry Slip Road (Temporary Prohibition of Traffic) Order 2013 and documented that it doesn't apply to their operations.)
CliveLowery  
#21 Posted : 30 August 2013 13:03:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

Rob, I have PM'd you. Regards Clive
cheifinspector  
#22 Posted : 30 August 2013 13:35:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cheifinspector

achrn wrote:
cheifinspector wrote:
boblewis wrote:
My favourite question when the total listing of all legislation is offered asks for you to explain how the Protection of Badgers Act 1992 applies to your business and how you then comply with its requirements.
We had to change our legislation register when an auditor asked a similar question about being compliant with legislation that does not apply to the organization. All they were after was evidence that we had reviewed the legislation and then determined that it did not apply.
I'd be more inclined to change auditor. It's a list of all the legislation that applies, not a list of all the legislation. I'm not going to read every item of legislation and document that it does not apply. (I hope your auditor's employer has been through the A14 Trunk Road (Junction 55 Copdock Mill Interchange, Ipswich, Suffolk) Eastbound Entry Slip Road (Temporary Prohibition of Traffic) Order 2013 and documented that it doesn't apply to their operations.)
My thoughts exactly. we didn't have to list every item of legislation in force just now. Only the ones relevant to our industry. A lot of this is also environmental legislation as the register is a combination of H&S and E.
Ian Townsend  
#23 Posted : 30 August 2013 14:02:00(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Ian Townsend

IMHO just a list would not suffice for a 3rd party audit. ISO 14001 4.3.2 expresses "a) identify and have access to the applicable legal requirements and other" and "b) determine how these apply to the organisations environmental aspects". Therefore an organisation needs to evidence how it has identified legal and other requirements and what it does to comply with these. Furthermore 4.5.2 basically says an organisation should periodically evaluate: Does the organisation know all of its legal and other requirements and is it complying with them. I would also ask for a different auditor :-0
peter gotch  
#24 Posted : 30 August 2013 16:56:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

On one of my projects we haven't awarded the badger mitigation contract yet, but we do have ground investigation, invasive archaeology, bat + red squirrel mitigation and hydrological and hydrogeological monitoring contracts all out of site at present. Not sure whether they've finished demolishing a school (have finished the asbestos removal). So if we decide to maintain a legislative register, it would be a very long document!
boblewis  
#25 Posted : 31 August 2013 23:34:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

But Peter you should really do this exercise on a project by project basis - construction always requires such a site specific approach to the identification of legislation relevant to the work. Do not forget the newts and adders also like one recent job. Newt fences and adder traps are wonderful:-) Bob
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