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helen17  
#41 Posted : 04 April 2014 16:40:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
helen17

No. We have just amended our "smokefree Policy" to include e-cigs (and Chargers) 3,500 staff.
jumponthebandwagon  
#42 Posted : 08 April 2014 12:53:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jumponthebandwagon

I work for an organisation with about 10000 employees, approximately 2000 of these employees are smokers and approx. 1000 will die an avoidable death due to a smoking related diseases. If we implemented a policy designed to encourage those smokers to switch to e-cigs, it is likely we will save 1000 people from an early and painful death. I can think of no other employee health initiative that would have such a positive outcome. Professor John Britton from the RCP states that 5 million lives could be saved in the UK if every smoker switched, banning e-cigs or overley restricting them is akin to banning seat belts in case they bruise your chest in the event of a crash. Any decision on e-cigs must balance the risk of continuing to smoke ( very high known risk ) against the risks posed by e-cigs ( very small and theoretical ). Many of the current wave of e-cig bans appear to be as the result of a knee jerk reaction to someting that superficailly resembles smoking without a true understanding of the risks involved. It should also be borne in mind that an e-cig ban is unenforceable, the odour ( if any ) dissapates very quickly and simply holding your breath for 5 seconds prevents any visible vapour. I have visited a number of workplaces where e-cigs are "banned" but after enquiring "off the record" have been told that vaping has simply continued in a more discrete manner. Leave the knee jerk reactions to the politicians, professional safety practitioners should know better.
Mr.Flibble  
#43 Posted : 08 April 2014 13:16:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mr.Flibble

No - 15000+ This also includes company vehicles, mainly because from a distance they look like real cigarettes. On a personal note try eating your lunch with someone blowing one in your face (with a rather smug look) then see people feel about them!!!
Steve e ashton  
#44 Posted : 08 April 2014 19:34:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

good answer from at number 42 Couldn't help but notice the irony in the monicker though So it seems my own employer is the only one (volunteered on here) that does have a policy that explicitly allows E Cig use at work???? Hmmmm... I wonder what I should read into that.... Steve out of step again...
Nic78  
#45 Posted : 09 April 2014 07:50:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Nic78

No approx 550 FTE's Over 40,000 fans and 2000 employees (total) on a match day
Scrumpyman  
#46 Posted : 09 April 2014 12:47:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Scrumpyman

Currently no ban but HR are trying to bring one in. 170 employees. I personally don't have a problem and cant see why they should be treated the same as cigarettes. If you force e cigarettes users to use the designated smoking areas on your site, (technically they are non smokers) are you not forcing them into a smoking environment? Would they then not have genuine reasons for a grievance and possibly discrimination?
stevedm  
#47 Posted : 09 April 2014 13:23:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Separate smoking shelters for ecigs, banned in the workplace. 10,000 The article quoted above by Professor Britton also states that the health benefits of using ecigs has yet to be proven. Most still use nicotine mixed with other bits.. There are also articles that ecigs are actually being used as a pathway for young smokers who then take up 'proper' smoking...
gotogmca  
#48 Posted : 09 April 2014 13:27:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
gotogmca

No, 250 people. We ban smoking on site due to the fact we store high levels of LPG and flammable solvents. We also restrict the use of battery operated equipment in certain areas for the same reason. This is the key reason we have banned e-cigarettes from site.
jumponthebandwagon  
#49 Posted : 09 April 2014 13:51:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jumponthebandwagon

SteveDM wrote:
Separate smoking shelters for ecigs, banned in the workplace. 10,000 The article quoted above by Professor Britton also states that the health benefits of using ecigs has yet to be proven. Most still use nicotine mixed with other bits.. There are also articles that ecigs are actually being used as a pathway for young smokers who then take up 'proper' smoking...
Quote from ASH - "There is little evidence of harmful effects from repeated exposure to propylene glycol, the chemical in which nicotine is suspended. One study concludes that electronic cigarettes have a low toxicity profile, are well tolerated, and are associated with only mild adverse effects". This is not suprising as you are swapping from a cloud of burning particulates & gases containing 4000ish harmful substances, and replacing it with 4 chemicals ( Nicotine, propylene glycol, glycerin and food flavourings ), nothing is completely safe but all bar the most ideological within public health agree they are orders of magnitude safe than normal cigarettes. There is no evidence that vaping provides a gateway to smoking, quite the opposite in fact. E-cigs have been around in widespread use for over 5 years, if there was a gateway effect we would have seen a rise in smoking rates. Latest figures show that in 2013 smoking rates reduced by the highest amount since 2007, largely attributed to increased use of e-cigs. Another quote from ASH - "E-cigarettes are used by both smokers and ex-smokers, but there is little evidence of use by those who have never smoked or by children" It is important to remember that e-cigs are a truly disruptive technology that threaten the incomes of both the tobacco and pharmacuitical industry who stand to lose billions if most smokers swapped. It is sad that myths regarding e-cigs are leading to smokers continuing to smoke when a far safer alternative is available. It appears from this thread that many organisation have based their e-cig policies on these myths. If any of us manage to put in effective policies that encourage smokers within our companies to switch, it is probably the most effective health intervention any of us will ever make in our careers. To ban these products based on very small risks and industry myths would be a lost opportunity of epic proportions.
jumponthebandwagon  
#50 Posted : 09 April 2014 13:56:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jumponthebandwagon

gotogmca wrote:
No, 250 people. We ban smoking on site due to the fact we store high levels of LPG and flammable solvents. We also restrict the use of battery operated equipment in certain areas for the same reason. This is the key reason we have banned e-cigarettes from site.
This is probably the only real good reason for banning e-cigs, I did however visit one organisation who had banned them on fire risk grounds but still permitted all other types of battery operated equipment, when asked why, the answer was simply "they explode don't they?".
stevedm  
#51 Posted : 09 April 2014 14:01:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

More independent clinical research is needed to clearly support both views. Just because there are less toxics in one device as opposed to another does not make it good for the body... Proper cessation of smoking programs are free and available on the NHS and that is where we should be pointing staff not to another corporate entity.
jumponthebandwagon  
#52 Posted : 09 April 2014 19:16:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jumponthebandwagon

SteveDM wrote:
More independent clinical research is needed to clearly support both views. Just because there are less toxics in one device as opposed to another does not make it good for the body... Proper cessation of smoking programs are free and available on the NHS and that is where we should be pointing staff not to another corporate entity.
I would question whether NHS cessation are effective, which is what I presume you mean by "proper". It helped nearly 146,000 people to quit between 2001 and 2011. Given that there are 10 million smokers in the UK this success rate equates to 0.15% reduction in smoking rate each year . The NHS has spent £84 million over the same period on their cessation services which equals to £5753 per quitter. I would argue that the NHS service is neither effective or economical and does not provide much hope to the hardened smokers in each of our organisations. This compares starkly with the figures associated with e-cigs, a conservative estimate of about 1.5 million vapers in the UK today, 100s of millions cigarettes unsmoked, all at no cost to taxpayers. Persuading a hardened smoker to switch to e-cigs is probably the most effective health intervention any of us could make, I would urge everybody to re-examine their policies and consider the health effects of an overley restrictive e-cig policy. I do not believe it appropriate to place exactly the same restrictions on two product when one is orders of magnitude less dangerous than the other.
stevedm  
#53 Posted : 09 April 2014 22:17:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

jump...I am assuming you are a smoker yourself? Seem to remember a similar argument when asbestos was hailed as the great fire protection saviour... Facts are they both contain toxics and whether you question it or not the NHS programs save thousands of loves every year.. There have been no hard facts presented. My view has been to separate rather than ban...so not quite sure why you are so vociferous in knocking down my rather sensible posts.
stevedm  
#54 Posted : 09 April 2014 22:17:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

oops lives... well make love not war,, :)
stevedm  
#55 Posted : 09 April 2014 22:25:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

As if we needed more on the subject...Advice from the BMA Advice for health professionals In light of the lack of scientific evidence about the efficacy and safety of e-cigarettes, coupled with the absence of a robust regulatory framework in the UK, health professionals should encourage their patients to use a regulated and licensed nicotine replacement therapy to help quit smoking. Where a patient is unable or unwilling to use or continue to use an approved and tested nicotine replacement therapy, health professionals may advise patients that while e-cigarettes are unregulated and their safety cannot be assured, they are likely to be a lower risk option than continuing to smoke.
Steve e ashton  
#56 Posted : 10 April 2014 12:56:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

I wonder if we have a vested interest posting here: I actually like the posts from jumpon and believe it is a "breath of fresh air" (pun intended) to see the arguments in favour posted so cogently and rationally. I think we all could take a lesson but... but ... , but it seems the monicker has never posted on other subjects.... A little niggle of suspicion is all. And yes - I also have an interest. As a former smoker for over forty years, and now using one of these demonised devices - I have found it easy to switch off the fags, and am currently finding it easy (over eight weeks so far) to dramatically reduce my use / intake of the vapour.... I had previously tried virtually all other aids to cessation including hypno, alan Carr, nicotine gum, cold turkey, patches etc etc.. None "worked" for me. The Vaporiser appears almost to be magic in comparison. And yes. I wrote my company's policy so I can use the device in the office.... So shoot me!
stevedm  
#57 Posted : 10 April 2014 18:49:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Well done you...just need to make the final step now to completely quitting... The policies tho' shouldn't be written around personal preferences they should be written around solid facts and figures....
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