it is not against the law to do vaping in the workplace however alot of workplaces have written in their policys that you cannot do vaping inside as it is not acceptable to be puffing away on an item which in all intents and purposes looks like a cig and could be dangerous as there have never been any proper clinical trials

quote=Ron Hunter]No disrespect, but shouldn't an apprentice computer technician be able to visit the GP on his own?

Vaping = Distilled water. Food grade flavourings. Pharmaceutical Nicotine. That's it.

The passive risk is no greater than working as a barista in a coffee house.

There does not appear to be definitive evidence, but this Guardian article on "E-cigarettes: miracle or health risk?" provides an insigh and so does the Wikipedia article

http://www.theguardian.c...s-miracle-or-health-risk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette

My mother in law was a very heavy smoker and always stunk of cigarette smoke.

She is over 70 years old and is suffering ill health.

The past two years have been tough for her as she is unable to walk very far due to problems with her leg veins and she needed surgery to unblock them otherwise one or both feet would have been amputated.

This is related to smoking for many many years.

Her Consultant advised her to take up Vaping as a substitute to cogarette smoking and reluctantly agreed.

He told her it was OK to Vape in the hospital ward.

Ever since then she is never without her E-cig in hand from wake up to sleep, some 18 hours a day.

Her legs are much better and she doesn't stink any more.

and as for vaping in a hospital ward - well all I can say is that the doc has no idea about the subject and is encouraging a hazardous environment

Interesting on the news today that they are considering giving out e-cigerets on prescription as they are considered much safer smokeing.

My concern with anything like this is the source of the product. Properly manufactured "solution" should pose very little 2nd hand risk. But look on an Internet search and see how much cheep product is on sale from places like China.

In this country we have Tradeing Standards, Customs and Excise (showing my age I think not sure of their current tital) HSE, Local Authority etc etc becuae surprise surprise some importers, manufactures, retailers and employers don't obey the law.

It would be very difficult to find out if the vaping is the cause of the problem or a virus as the Doctor has diagnosed.

Once your son goes back to work, time will show if the condition re-occurs.

Don't know much about putting computers together, but back in the old days there used to be issue with solder flux's and the like is their anything like this going on as well. Some of the old exposures that we thought we had eliminated are returning due to changes in technology - saw a recycling company prosecuted a couple of years ago for exposure to mercury from light bulbs.

I think it unlikely that it is the vaping that is the main problem - but I would not dismiss it out of hand.

quote=Brian Hagyard]Interesting on the news today that they are considering giving out e-cigerets on prescription as they are considered much safer smoking.

My concern with anything like this is the source of the product. Properly manufactured "solution" should pose very little 2nd hand risk. But look on an Internet search and see how much cheep product is on sale from places like China.

In this country we have Tradeing Standards, Customs and Excise (showing my age I think not sure of their current tital) HSE, Local Authority etc etc becuae surprise surprise some importers, manufactures, retailers and employers don't obey the law.

It would be very difficult to find out if the vaping is the cause of the problem or a virus as the Doctor has diagnosed.

Once your son goes back to work, time will show if the condition re-occurs.

Don't know much about putting computers together, but back in the old days there used to be issue with solder flux's and the like is their anything like this going on as well. Some of the old exposures that we thought we had eliminated are returning due to changes in technology - saw a recycling company prosecuted a couple of years ago for exposure to mercury from light bulbs.

I think it unlikely that it is the vaping that is the main problem - but I would not dismiss it out of hand.

E-Cigs very much in news yesterday & today:-

E-cigarettes around 95% less harmful than tobacco estimates landmark review

https://www.gov.uk/gover...stimates-landmark-review

Lets consider the 800 others who are non smokers / Ecig users.

Can you guarantee their passive inhalation will have no health issues for them ?

Or is it just considered reasonable they should "take one for the Team"

Why is it so difficult to officially state one way or another if there is a passive issue or not. Surely this is a big enough issue for this to be tested.

1 assumption is that the lad has a clean set of lungs, how many of our parents knew exactly what we were up to.
2 I feel that the vaping thing will end up like cigerettes in a number of years it will be realised that they are doing damage particularly to people having the second hand vapour. I think they should be treated like cigerettes and banned in enclosed places. Most workplaces have banned them and I know a couple of pubs that have gone the same way. This might just be that it encourages people who see them to light a ciggerette in the hope they get away with it. I have never heared of anyone suffering adverse consequences through inhaling the vapour, but that doesn't mean they don't.

In any case an allergy test may be helpful.

I unfortunately sat in the pub and watched Liverpool play on Monday night, I am not into vaping but the fella sitting next to me had a vape pipe that once inhaled the amount that came out of it was like a cloud. I missed most of the game, thank god, the only time I was glad that someone was covering the screen in vaper.

My son went to work this morning, his cough seems to have cleared up until they started vaping inside the shop then the cough started.

The Boss had a word with him about another issue then my son told him he thinks the vaping is the reason for the cough.

The Boss told him that is a load of rubbish as it is 95% better then normal cigarettes, My son told him the GP mentioned the vaping could be the cause of irritation in his lungs and again the reply was "a load of rubbish".

Our problem is what to do next?

We do not want this to be the cause of our son losing his job but if things stay as they are his health will suffer. We are fairly certain of that.

We need to get the Boss to change his ways and stop vaping indoors so our son gets the clean air he is entitled to.

This is a small business. One employer, one employee, one apprentice and one work experience, who by the way is vaping with the others.

75% of the workers are Vaping.

The latest reports say Vaping 95% better than cigarettes but what is the 5% ? Is that for the people that vape?

What about the passive exhaled vapour ? Has that been tested ?

If I contact EHO what will they do ? Would they visit the shop and have a strong word with the boss, who would most likely get angry and take is out on our son, leading to dismissal ???????

This needs to be put to bed quickly so any guidance will be most appreciated.

Watcher

My son has tried the talking route and got the answer in my previous post.

His Boss has previously told me that he prefers to talk to my son and not myself. I am not the company H&S Officer. They are allegedly guided by the training company.

The business does not have any risk assessments, not that my son is aware of anyway.

This is about my son's health he is 17 years young and the GP has stated the Vaping could cause irritation and could affect his health in the future.

He is an apprentice and has spoken up for himself but the employer does not see a problem.

IMHO smokers are always selfish and will smoke anywhere they are allowed to without regard to non smokers who may be inhaling the passive smoke.

By the way I was a smoker from age 16 to 40. I stopped because my 8 year old son was mimicking me using a pencil so I just went cold turkey, no need for vaping, it wasn't around in those days. 1990's My children (4 of them) are all non smokers.

People who Vape are just the same and the fact that there are no rules about controlling where people Vape has led us to this point.

We are not immediately looking for who to "tell on", but taking things slowly, so thanks for you point but not very helpful at all, perhaps you should get back to what you are good at - Watching.

Not being rude, but surely we all have the right to ask questions and ask for help/support/advice?

If someone is suffering then it isn't something that should just be brushed off as menial as it may sound to someone else- snowball effect anyone?

Personally if they are not willing to listen at least, I would help your son have the best possible CV going and get him out of there and leave them to it. You have to think of number 1 once in a while.

Firesafety - I appreciate where you are coming from and your previous posts.

Just a quick one RE Risk Assessments - there is no duty to record them which may be why your son has not seen them - less than the specified number of employees.

I think your nexct step is talking to the training company - which is what you have done. Maybe getting a doctors letter would support your case too (I know there is a cost involved but you "cant put a price on your health")!

As a non-smoker and non 'vapourer' I can sympathise with your son to a degree. Don't forget the basics of H&S:

HSWA: It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.

HSWA: to take reasonable care for the health and safety of himself and of other persons who may be affected by his acts or omissions at work; and

So although not explicitly there RE vaping, it is there RE health. If the GP does a letter to say this is likely to be causing ill health then they are in breach of the HSWA. Wherever you go from there is likely to lead to dismissal for your son, but then you know that and already have the constructive dismissal in mind. Hopefully this gets sorted before you reach this point, but if they really pay no attention then I see no alternative. And if it does go that far then surely your sons health is worth more than an apprenticeship... (which coincidently the employer is probably getting paid for by the government so you may be surprised how far he will bend if pushed...)

I hope that helps.

You may well be right. It's more important for your sons development that the employer wants him there and actually values him, otherwise the chances of his apprenticeship going well are slim at best!

Personally speaking if that was my son (I am a parent although mine is only 4 so a long way off an apprenticeship yet!) or if I was you I would be giving him some serious life advice about goal setting and doing what makes him happy in a workplace where he is happy.

I know as parents we want to protect our kids as much as possible and coming from H&S backgrounds we want them safe at work.

You have given your son all the information, you have spoken wiith the boss 'my kids would of disowned me' as they believe they know everything (but didn't we all at that age), why not let him decide on it, he could walk out and get a job somewhere else or apprenticeship.

My son has just started work behind the bar he's at uni. and I am fed up of being his cash cow, he will come up against things that I may not like but now it is his life and all we can do is advise and guide.

noting above my personal experiments; Your child's health is the most important & note that *drug users, however well meaning outwardly, are drug users so they cannot communicate sensibly nor properly because the drug controls them [*my comments come from expert drug counsellors]

enforcers have little competence in this area & as they are so short funded it is unlikely that they would advise properly never mind act and after reading the reports presented [thanks Jay and others] by various parties those parties all consider the smoker NOT the none smoker & the reports are full of maybe's ------- In my experience training providers have no experience in this area [with very few having competent H&S bods on board] and are concerned with getting placements above all else - which is a very hard place to be

I advise all to read up on COSHH as it DOES apply as does other law so there are tools available to help manage the issue but drug takers, however nice, are very very hard to manage

However noting that we H&S people should err to caution [or has that stance changed too?] and work from that point if that was me I would get the training people to have their H&S bod [if they have a competent person, which I doubt] to evaluate properly & place my child elsewhere

Pubs, shops & even buses etc. are slowly & surely allowing such activities to take place in their control areas but after talking to landlords etc. they all know that they will not be enforced so they do not bother as the person spreading the vapour is providing money to them -- again progress has stopped because politics and money gets in the way

best of luck

Is this now a wasps nest ha ha.

The issue is real and gaining pace.

I have discussd the issue with the training "mentor" via emails and he tells me the Young Person's risk assesament is now overdue and the employer has until the end of this month to get it in.

My son has been employed for six weeks ?????? I suggest it is six weeks overdue.

The next meeting arranged with my son is 1st September followed by a training need review.

I have suggested he makes contact with the employer sooner as he is now aware of a health problem and asked to be informed today what he is going to do.

If he makes contact with the employer as a catch up "how's it going" sort of call that gives the employer opportunity to inform the health issue, if he does that further questions can follow, if not he has something to hide.

Either way our son is close to resigning and seeking a different job, maybe as early as Monday next.

There is then the employment contract which requires one month notice, however I think the employer may waive that in the circumstances, I hope so anyway.