Hi,

My workplace is moving from the ground floor of one building to the sixth floor of another. The lifts are not evacuation fire proof lifts. I do not always use a wheelchair but I have motability issues. I also have conditions that mean that using an evac chair will cause considerable pain and could leave me back using a wheelchair. This is something I do not want. My workplace are now asking for medical proof that there is something wrong with me being on the sixth floor and we are due to move in five weeks time.

How do I stand - I have no issues with the medical stuff so long as my Doctor doesn't want to charge me for a letter or anything. My problem is I cannot be the only person who cannot risk using an evac chair to leave a building. I work for a massive company with over 60k people working for them yet they have no policy for this and have never come accross it before.

Does anyone know if there is an legal informaiton or policies around these situations at all? Can I be forced to move and use the chair?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Red

Originally Posted by: MEden380

Red

I am intrigued to here your medical condition would be worsened by the use of an "Evac Chair". Have you experience of this? Do you not use a chair in the work place to sit at a desk?

Thats what i was thinking, i mean your only going to be in an evac chair for a few minutes until your on the ground floor, Surely sitting down for minutes is not going to cause you considerable pain is it?

What do you do at work stand up all day??

Red - there are many designs of evac chair on the market. In my humble opinion, some of the market leaders are the most uncomfortable, as they have limited padding and force the user into an unnatural bent over position which is painful, even for somebody with no medical condition!

Can you post which design (model and supplier) that will be in place?

It may well be that there are models of chairs out there that would be suitable (note, suitable and not comfortable!). Having a design which risks worsening your condition is simply not sufficient.

Are the stairs a protected route that would enable you to walk down them slower they may introduce a stay put in that case. What would be the time it would take you to get to a place of safety and I'm not talking the '3 minute rule' to get out of the building which is rubbish.

Maybe I should have been really clear in my post.

I do not want constructive dismissal - I want my job.

My work are taking over all six floors in the building and all four floors in the adjacent building. Our work team have been allocated the sixth floor. There are people on the 1st floor upwards that work for my company.

I have several conditions and have watched several promotial videos of evac chairs that do not seem to have changed from when I did use one and ended up off sick due to pain.

I have Fibro, CFS, CPS twisted spine and unstable pelvis. I have a sit stand desk and a specially adapted chair at work. I have specially adapted cusions for the wheelchair for if I use it.

I am not trying to get my work to do anything, I am trying to get a solution so I can continue to work. I have been six for nearly ten years to varying degrees, including bed ridden and I take over 400mg of morphine to function. I am trying not to end up worse than I am now and stay employed. 

My head of unit wants us all together on the 6th floor even though there are other floors that could be utilised. I just want to know if I can say that moving my small team of 20 people to another floor would be reasonable compared with me being re-deployed, on my own, or dismissed.

I also wanted to know if anyone had come across this before - I cannot be the only person who cannot risk using an evac chair to be taken dow six flights of stairs, there must be some policy for this somewhere or any ideas as to what could be done instead.

The building is reletavly new so I was hoping that it would have fire proof lifts but it appears not. The stairwells are supposed to be fireproofed but I have yet to have full information on that. 

I don't mind people commenting but please consider the fact that I am almost in tears because whether your intent was to make me feel like a liar or some sort of money grabbing legal action taking person or not, some of the comments below have suceeded.

I came onto this furum because the other posts I had read had helpful and thought provoking replies. Could I not have the same please?

Red

Note: I have dyslexia - if things are mis-spelt try reading it as a sentence. Still can't figure it out, feel free to ask!

Originally Posted by: redordeaduk

Maybe I should have been really clear in my post.

I do not want constructive dismissal - I want my job.

My work are taking over all six floors in the building and all four floors in the adjacent building. Our work team have been allocated the sixth floor. There are people on the 1st floor upwards that work for my company.

I have several conditions and have watched several promotial videos of evac chairs that do not seem to have changed from when I did use one and ended up off sick due to pain.

I have Fibro, CFS, CPS twisted spine and unstable pelvis. I have a sit stand desk and a specially adapted chair at work. I have specially adapted cusions for the wheelchair for if I use it.

I am not trying to get my work to do anything, I am trying to get a solution so I can continue to work. I have been six for nearly ten years to varying degrees, including bed ridden and I take over 400mg of morphine to function. I am trying not to end up worse than I am now and stay employed. 

My head of unit wants us all together on the 6th floor even though there are other floors that could be utilised. I just want to know if I can say that moving my small team of 20 people to another floor would be reasonable compared with me being re-deployed, on my own, or dismissed.

I also wanted to know if anyone had come across this before - I cannot be the only person who cannot risk using an evac chair to be taken dow six flights of stairs, there must be some policy for this somewhere or any ideas as to what could be done instead.

The building is reletavly new so I was hoping that it would have fire proof lifts but it appears not. The stairwells are supposed to be fireproofed but I have yet to have full information on that. 

I don't mind people commenting but please consider the fact that I am almost in tears because whether your intent was to make me feel like a liar or some sort of money grabbing legal action taking person or not, some of the comments below have suceeded.

I came onto this furum because the other posts I had read had helpful and thought provoking replies. Could I not have the same please?

Red

Note: I have dyslexia - if things are mis-spelt try reading it as a sentence. Still can't figure it out, feel free to ask!

Don't get wound up, people need to ask questions so that they have an understanding of what is and is not possible.

Are the stairs a protected route that would enable you to walk down them slower they may introduce a stay put in that case. What would be the time it would take you to get to a place of safety and I'm not talking the '3 minute rule' to get out of the building which is rubbish.

I really cannot believe the tone of this reply. The OP has asked a reasonable question and in my opinion should not be faced with such an abusive post from a site representing professions Who do you think you are doubting this posters claims. I have come across several people who are uncomfortable on evac chairs, some to the point of being unable to use them. I will post later when I am home and not on a bumpy train. Go and sit on an evac chair and compare with your office chair. This daft reply had angered me

I refrained from replying to earlier posts because I too read them as a little aloof and patronising towards the original post. I appreciate that texts/replies can sometimes be misconstrued from their original intention so chose to ignore them. I'm glad red came back on to expain the situation in more detail, hopefully this helps clarify the reason for the question (though, not sure why they should need to justify the question).

Anyhow, back to the real question in hand and I agree the obvious answer is to try and relocate to ground/lower floors for your team unless there is a valid reason by hte company not to do so. If they can't then I'd maybe look into alternatives to the evac chair you've had previous bad experiences with - I know you can get electronic stair riders which offer a smoother trip down the stairs (not sure of the reaosn the previous one you tried was due to jarring as it went down each step)?

Maybe get a supplier to come in and give demos of each available option - maybe get a friend/colleague to test them out for you and see if they notice a differing level of comfort between them all before you risk trying any of them?

Of course if your employer is willing to spend money on finding a suitable solution there will be other options - see link to see if there is anything of use amongst them http://www.dlf.org.uk/factsheets/stairs

I noticed you said that you have watched promotional videos that indicate that these chairs are similar to others that have caused you problems in the past.

Could you, your employer and the various suppliers have a discussion about your condition to see if  there any alternative chairs on the market to ones you have seen already or whether a bespoke chair is required?

Reasonable adjustments etc.

Hope it works out for you.

How about a spinal board, strapped on you can still be taken down the stairs and you wont be in a sitting position, failing that, make a secure area on the 6th floor and get the Fire bridage to resue you direct.

Whilst some may not like the tone of my answers, you do need to ask these questions as opposed to pussyfooting around trying to pick bad points.

The OP did not mentionat all their condition which meant people had limieted information in which to offer ideas.

So now we know sitting down is an issue, how about a soinal board where you are strapped up in the upright postition??

Unfortunately, reliance on the fire service for rescue is not a valid policy, as they will tell you.

There are other ways of getting down flights of stairs, hospitals have a prone matress type of device that cocoons the person and can be slid down the stairs.  I've been in one for drills and whilst not comfortable it did not cause injuries and enabled escape in a reasonable time,  from your self description that may be a viable escape system.  People need to be trained to use them.

They are available in size ranges too, up to around a 400lb load.

Originally Posted by: firesafety101

I totally agree with mssy, surprise surprise. How dare anyone question the medical conditions of someone with a disability, there is an Equality Act in place allegedly preventing that type of behaviour. That sounded like the H&S adviser was thinking more about the employer than the employee. The person has an issue with Evac Chairs and that is what we should all be trying to improve, not his medical conditions. Now that we know the employer is occupying all floors the answers is simple, move the OP and his team to the lowest floor possible. I would think one flight of stairs may????? be acceptable. It is up to the employer to provide the safe evacuation of all employers and no one employee should have this responsibility. There are people outside who can provide ideas that some of us will not have even thought of. The Job Centre puts disabled people into work places, maybe that would be a starting point. My daughter has spina bifida and many other disabling conditions and I have been involved in many PEEPs. She will not even sit in an Evac Chair, not that she cannot but also having mental issues making her very frightened, so her method of using stairs is to sit on her bottom and "bum" down the stairs at her own speed. This has always been acceptable to her and her schools, even a hotel where we were on the second floor when she began descending on her bottom when the fire alarm sounded. OK not always the best procedure and I doubt if that will suit this forum user. Please give this chap great consideration and if we can come up with the right solution then we will have achieved, if not at least we have tried. I have read a book by one of the fire officers at the Twin Towers who stayed with an elderley lady assisting her down many many flights of stairs. He saved her life, and his own by descending very very slowly with her. If he had been much quicker he would have died in a part of the Tower that was destroyed, as luck would have it they were above that and lived.

Well i totally disagree with both you and Mssy, 'how dare we question' well when we carry out individual R/A's PEEP's etc we have to question otherwise we would have to write them for everyone. This to me is what is wrong with society we are asked to make changes tthat allow people with a disability to enjoy everything the able bodied can but we are not allowed to ask how we can best help them to do this.

What people need to do is look at why the question is being asked, just because some habe a disability doesn't mean they can't answer questions about themselves. We have loads of questions that are aimed at able bodied people but I do not see them up in arms.

In my opinion If disabled people don't like being questioned then don't post. If we don't undersatnd the disbility how are we supposed to assist in making society 'equal for all'!

Sorry, but I still think that the option of a ground floor (or lower level) office needs to be explored more fully, before anything else is even considered. I think the OP needs to be given a better explanation as to why it is necessary to put them on the 6th floor.

Originally Posted by: stonecold

Possible alternative method.

Two nominated people stand each side of the person and hold/ support their arms as they descend slowly down the stairs. 

The HSE reccomend this as a workable option in some cases.

Thats a good idea, But what way does the OP think they could get down the stairs if their a fire? perhaps if they came up with some ideas of what might help we could advise further, But like watson said morn information is needed to be able to advise further

I still think my Zorb ball or wet shute plastic tarpaulin is the best option (for all)

If the OP cannot sit in an evac chair I doupt bouncing him down 6 flights of stairs in a ski mat will help his condition.

If you cannot be moved then have the risk assessment completed and ensure that all doors onto the stair well are a good fit and undamged. How many stair wells are there one, two. Make sure your PEEP's identifies everything, buddy system, travel distance and even how long it will take you to get out. Ensure that fire brigade are made aware that there are people who will take longer to get out, they will still assist the only thing is you cannot just shove someone in an area and expect the fire brigade to get them out.

Get the company to run evacuation drills more often so that you and your colleagues become aware of each other during the evacuation, this will also give an indecation of how long it will take you to get out in a real situation.

Skipping all the drama, I would think... backwards!

Since all the previous posters were thinking down, why not think up?

Of course, I am not aware of the buildings location and specifications bu I do have an exmple.

Our offices in London are located centraly and as such, the building is extremely old. Our FRA recommended that the closest fire exit was upstairs to the rooftop of the attached building. Then again, the two buildings were similar, so the hight and structure helped. We didn't have and still don't have someone with disability though to consider and our lifts are definetly not fire proof. 

Could this be a possibility since you occupy floors of the other building as well? You will have to contact the occupiers of the top floor and landlord to make arrangements. The fire brigade as well.

Fire exit routes would need to be considered and the fact that the fire could spread or how to evacuate the attached building. A (really) far fetched idea would be a fire evacuation rope located next building but I guess that would result to much more pain that an evacuation chair. Still, maybe try to find a similar solution or even try it as we can never be sure of the posture or the forces applied on your body that would make you feel more relaxed.

Hope this helps and sparks additional comments with achievable solutions.

Originally Posted by: firesafety101

Originally Posted by: stonecold

Possible alternative method.

Two nominated people stand each side of the person and hold/ support their arms as they descend slowly down the stairs. 

The HSE reccomend this as a workable option in some cases.

How fast is this method, I think very slow.

Would you suggest these people should go first or join the escaping masses already on the staircase, or wait until everyone else has gone.

Problem with this method is it will slow down everyone else and has potential to cause panic for those behind and danger for the OP

Obviously go after the masses....If you read my post you will see I wrote this is an option that works in some cases. (been tested at a location of ours and works fine for the individual concerned)

Heres a friendly tip, instead of being critical of other peoples post why not try and be helpful and come up with some suggestions of your own. The method i described appears in some HSE guidance on PEEPS so ts obviusly useful, again in some cases

Originally Posted by: stonecold

Originally Posted by: firesafety101

Originally Posted by: stonecold

Possible alternative method.

Two nominated people stand each side of the person and hold/ support their arms as they descend slowly down the stairs. 

The HSE reccomend this as a workable option in some cases.

How fast is this method, I think very slow.

Would you suggest these people should go first or join the escaping masses already on the staircase, or wait until everyone else has gone.

Problem with this method is it will slow down everyone else and has potential to cause panic for those behind and danger for the OP

Obviously go after the masses....If you read my post you will see I wrote this is an option that works in some cases. (been tested at a location of ours and works fine for the individual concerned)

Heres a friendly tip, instead of being critical of other peoples post why not try and be helpful and come up with some suggestions of your own. The method i described appears in some HSE guidance on PEEPS so ts obviusly useful, again in some cases

Thank you for the friendly tip Stonecold but I wasn't being critical merely pointing out anyone behing the slowly walking escaper with another person on either side, will be slowed down and may panic.

In my opinion we have discussed all the options and it is now up to the OP to interview the individual, offer all alternatives and let him decide which is most suitable for him.

There must be practices of whatever option is chosen and if it involves Evac chair then staff must be trained and practiced in its use.  Occasionally with the individual but not always.

Don't forget to practice using all alternative means of escape from the 6th floor, and all other floors he may visit.

Where will the Evac chair be kept, ground floor, 6th floor ??????  Are there other people who will need the Evac chair at the same time????