7 years on from the original post, what are peoples views, and legally where do we stand, with regards to Aspirin in a Workplace First Aid Kit?

Comes back to the definition of First Aid At Work which to date does not include any activity of prescription of medicines (ref: long posts regarding Epi-Pen amongst others).

Ceratinly still not on the list of items to be held in a standard FAAW kit.

Please remember there is a BIG difference between FAAW and P(Public)FA as practiced by active members of St John, St Andrew, Red Cross etc. who have liability insurance during their training period of vailidity.

Data Protection prevents an employer making widely and publicly available conditions where aspririn would not be a suitable treatment.

1. How do you know they are having a heart attack?

2. would it do any harm giving an asprin anyway unles they were alergic?

3. I thought that the new regulations that as long as you were acting in the bast interest whilst carrying out first aid then there would be no prosecution against you covered insurance..

Invictus's points are good ones,

John

Originally Posted by: achrn

Originally Posted by: Invictus

1. How do you know they are having a heart attack?

2. would it do any harm giving an asprin anyway unles they were alergic?

3. I thought that the new regulations that as long as you were acting in the bast interest whilst carrying out first aid then there would be no prosecution against you covered insurance..

1: The question relates to a trained first-aider, so the answer to this is 'from the training'.  You may as well ask how a first-aider knows the casualty is unconscious (if they are).

2: Presumably not, and the recomendation is to do so if the victim is fully conscious, which I believe is (partly) so that they can identify for themselves if they cannot take aspirin.

Well your little mocking tone holds no water with me, I had 3 trained first aiders who didn't know what was wrong with me despite having a heart attack, annd the reason was I didn't have the clasic symtoms, infact I was told by two of them that it was indigestion. I was training at the time and became ill during the training and although ididn't feel well i thought it was indigestion I continued training, the first aiders only realised I was having a heart attack once I had blacked out so at that point I wasn't able to take the asprin and I would bet there are loads of people who show no or little symtoms.

2 I have answered. at no point did the first aiders even suggest an aspirin as a precaution. We are all still friends but it taught them a lesson not to always take notice of the causalty.

Originally Posted by: Doublestemcell

Posting deleted - Advertising - Mods still have difficulty removing some posts - so this has been over-written

Mod 1

It appears that Mads. are having trouble stopping the idiot postings.

Edited by moderator 26 October 2016 08:07:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

In response to the original post I only have one point to make in relation to first aiders giving aspirin and I want to state that I am not and never have been first aid trained so this post is purely from a personal point of view.

My mother took unwell at work one day some years ago and her work colleagues contacted first aiders who suspected heart attack.  They called ambulance and the workplace nurse both of whom suspected heart attack as well.  She was shipped off to hospital and on admission doctors thought heart attack until tests ruled it out.  Now whilst conscious my mother could barely communicate but fortunately my brother also worked in the same place and was called.  The paramedics were going to administer aspirin in accordance with protocol until my brother informed them that my mother was allergic.  Now to give you an idea of the reaction, which was severe, the one and only time previous that my mother had been given aspirin it was in a hospital environment and resulted in her "hovering" above her bed watching the medical team with full crash facilities working on her which fortunately worked.  I keep telling her she should be wearing a med-alert type bracelet but I'm banging my head against the wall with that one.

Originally Posted by: Invictus

On a slightly different subject bandages, what do people do with so called out of date bandages. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with unopende bandages but we take them and throw them out, does anyone know where they can be sent to be used. When I worked in the prison we used to have staff who would collect them and then they would be sent to hospitals in so called 3rd world countries, does anyone have any further information.

Invictus I once asked a relative who is a medical professional this exact question and I was told that it was particularly important with sterile dressings but the reason for the expiry dates was that the packaging manufacturers could only guarantee the glues etc used in the packaging for a certain length of time and after this they could not guarantee the sterility of the dressings.  We donate ours to a local boys brigade, scout groups etc for use in their first aid training.

Originally Posted by: chris.packham

When at a meeting of our local NHS Trust on the Trust's policy regarding suspected strokes/heart attacks we were told that it was the policy for ambulance staff/first responders not to give aspirin. The speaker did qualify this with the statement that others might give aspirin provided they were satisfied that the person affected was not allergic to it.

Chris

That's concerning, it's specifically stated in the current UK Resus council guidelines. Re the risk of being allergic, a first aider would never give a unconcious casualty any medication. First Aiders should ask the concious casusalty if they are allergic prior to administering aspirin.  In terms of an unknown severe allergy the benefits significantly outways the risk. 

Also those who are still unsure about giving aspirin ask the ambulance control room whilst on the phone to the ambulance call handler. A paramedic advisor is usually in this control room and can advise you to administer aspririn, they are then making the call; it is normal for the ambulance service to recommend this even to a lay person over the phone.  

which having ascertained aspirin should not be in the works First Aid Kit......

Not entirely sure about UK guidelines but here in RoI our clinical practice guidance for OFA's and cardiac first responders is to give 300mg asprin for suspected cardiac chest pain. the contraindications for asprin are:

1. Severe allergy to asprin
2. Active stomach ulcer (peptic ulcer)
3. Bleeding disorder (haemophelia)
4. Under 16 (risk of Reye's Syndrome)

Asprin prevents the platlets from binding together and prevents further blood clots from forming. As a general rule we teach that asprin is best kept with the AED where available. I carry an asprin in my wallet at all times! Asprin usually does not have any negative effects except the ones listed above in low doses (<900mg)

Kevin

FWIW,

About a year ago, in the middle of the night, I woke up to my wife being ill in the bathroom, next room, I didn't panic, I lied there for a moment or two, then realised things were serious.

I got up and started getting dressed before she even called me.

My next action was to pick the phone up and dial 999.

Now I am full 3 day FAW trained, as was my wife, but hers has expired.

We looked at each other and we both thought the same thing.

I dialed 999, and went through the symptoms with the call responder.

The next thing I was told asked was did we have asprin and could I administer it, no question that I can recall, about allergy.

We both knew what they suspected, the same as we did, her brother died at 39 of a heart attack, her mother at 52 of a heart attack.

The call centre and paramedics were great.

As it turned out, it was not heart related! Phew!!!

However, given that experience, I would have no qualms if I thought that the patient was suffering an arrest I would check with the call centre and if they said administer I would, and if the casualty could confirm that as far as they knew they were not allergic I would administer and be damned.

I would rely on the "good samaritan" philosopy, at least I would try to save the life.

In the same way, I WOULD apply a torniquet to a limb, even against guidance if someone was likely IMHO to bleed out from a wound and the flow could not be stemmed, and again be damned.

I would rather keep someone alive with an amputation, than watch them die.

Controversial probably, have I had to do it, no, do I want to have to do it no.

However, sometimes, one has to act on what is in front of you, the data that you have and process it on the spot, and make snap decisions based on that, you do what you can do, and the best you can.

Some people don't have the confidence of their convictions, being an Engineer, then I am paid for my opinions, and I have to live with my decisions, especially running my own company, so I am willing to accept the ramifications of my actions.