I was Previously in a duel role as a chemical operator and safety advisor I left to go into a predominant Health and Safety role as I am now studying my Degree equivalent.

My current role, I started as a health and safety assistant, this was due to be junior H&S advisor and I have had major arguments with management and the directors over my role and title I have always presumed that an assistant is to assist.

my current duties are:

- Review and conduct Risk Assessments.

- Job hazard analysis.

- Produce Safe Systems of Work.

- Organise Training and Conduct toolbox talks.

- New employee training, training records and training matrix's.

- Develop induction handbooks for new employees and visitors and deliver these as necessary.

- Develop and maintain a safety management system inline with ISO18001.

- Identify legal requirements.

- Write Policies and Procedures.

- Conduct internal system audits on safety management system.

- test fire alarm and document, produce fire evacuation plans and ensure best practise is maintained.

- conduct daily workplace inspections.

- conduct a monthly hazard report and action plan.

- lead accident/incident investigation and conduct root cause analysis.

- set targets and objectives to reduce accidents, incidents, near misses and workplace hazards.

- develop graphs to monitor performance.

would I be right in thinking that I am working above an assistant as my director is arguing that due to my title change i will be wanting more money, this is not the case i want to be accredited for what i currently do and to highlight that my manager (who is in a duel role) is not performing his duties i am performing them.

what title/level would you consider this role to be?

please the more responses the better as this is my argument that i conduct a lot more than assistant.

thank you, although it was more a point of doing alot more than an assistant does.

to call someone an assistant when they have developed the entire system is a major insult.

Originally Posted by: pete48

Hi Shaun. 

Assistant is a term also used to denote someone who simply ranks beneath a senior person; especially so in organisations that are/have to be structured hierarchically. It is not just about defining someone as a 'helper' type of assistant. There are plenty of examples in all sectors that show the term applied to jobs requiring strong quals, skill sets and experience. 

Thus is it possible that your comment about being insulted is a matter of personal perception? Are you perhaps too fixed on the 'helper' type of description. Personally I have always gone with salary levels as the area to challenge with bosses rather than job titles.

hth

Hi Pete,

I feel insulted as when I came to this role and responsibilities where decided, it was decided that I would assist the manager in controlling hazards, etc. My manager works in planning and HSE and since i have started he has focused soley on Planning so as you can see my issue is more that I am not assisting I have developed the companies policies and procedures, set health and safety objectives and conduct performance measuring.

When I first started at the company I ask to review the risk assessments to be told they had only managed to do 2 in 4 years and had no system in place so I have now developed an internal Safety Management System in line with OHSAS 18001 and am taking the through the transition to ISO45001 to gain accreditation, for which my manager has taken 100% credit as though these where tasks set by him (I wrote my own Plan on a Page)

Hopefully you can see my frustration and not feel this is a petty issue.

Thank you.

Shaun.

I agree with you ShaunBaker91. I have been a H&S coordinator for 3 years in two different jobs, but I have been doing much more than a coordinators job - in my current role I am the only H&S person, as my manager has recently left and there is no sign of a replacement, but even before he left I was near enough managing the H&S in 2 sites (he was based at another site). 

I find the job title holds back my career progression as I feel the title is the first thing looked at when applying for Advisory roles in other organisations (a recruitment company informed me of this). My previous two managers have commented that I should at least be in an advisory role but the powers above them are not willing to change the title (probably due to possible salary changed) - I am happy with my current salary and money does not really come into it (although it would be nice to be paid more), but I think to have Health and Safety Advisor on my CV looks miles better than Health and Safety Coordinator and further down the line when I’m possibly ready for the next step after that which would be a manager - it is very unlikely to go from coordinator to manager.

In terms of changing my job title I have been looking elsewhere to get the recognition I think I deserve, this could be something that you might have to do, although I am finding it difficult to get my foot into the interview room door.

Why not change your CV to the title you want. Its not exactly fraudulent changing a word, as long as you don't lie about quals & experience, I don't see an issue.

See if that helps with the job interviews.

Hi Shaun

You may not like (or agree) with what I’m about to say, but please take it in the manner intended, which is meant to be constructive.

Firstly, it isn’t clear exactly what H&S qualifications you currently hold, other than saying that you’re studying for a “degree equivalent”.  Whilst I fully accept that qualifications aren’t necessarily the “be all and end all” of a position, they often place you within a certain bracket, and you can only move upwards when your qualifications and experience show that you’ve reached (or bettered) a certain standard.

Next, you say that you feel “insulted” by your job title because you believe that you’re doing more than should be expected of an assistant, and that you’re not actually assisting your manager.  Having looked at the tasks you’re undertaking, I have to say that a) most of these I would expect a competent assistant of mine to be able to do, and b) that you ARE assisting your manager by freeing up his time to allow him to do other things.  I’m not au fait with your organisation so I don’t know how they work (or what they expect of people), but it’s not unusual for people to have dual roles these days unfortunately, and maybe your manager is having to rely upon you to help him fulfil the role that your Company expects of him ?

Another way of looking at your current role is that you’re learning and gaining experience whilst being shielded to a degree.  By that I mean that your current job title of “assistant” protects you up to a point as your manager (and those above him) are the ones who are ultimately responsible for supervising someone in your position, and for your actions – especially if one day you get it wrong !  Many people would be grateful for that.

You’ve stated that you’ve had “major arguments with managers and directors over your role”.  I have to say that I’ve personally risen to quite a high management level within Health and Safety, and I didn’t get there by arguing over my job title.  You learn that you only have that sort of conversation when something really serious demands it, and maybe your attitude has something to do with the fact that you’re not where you want to be ? (sorry if that offends, but I did say you might not like some of things I had to say).

Having said all of the above, I DO have some sympathy with your predicament, and I think many of us have been in your shoes at some point during our careers.  However, the way to go about it is to make things happen rather than moaning about it.  If you REALLY don’t think you’re valued where you’re at, move on (as SNS has suggested).  If you’re as good as you say you are, your actual job title won’t hold you back – believe me.  The vast majority of us who hold senior positions now used to be assistants at some point, and most of us obviously managed to convince other Companies that we were “worthy of greater things” to make the step up.  Yes, it can be challenging at times, but it’s far from impossible.  Don’t forget however that with the higher title come greater responsibilities, and I would suggest that you only make the move when you’re fully ready to do so.

If you honestly feel that you’re ready now, then may I wish you all the best in obtaining your objectives.

Hi Shaun

Thank you for taking my comments in the way they were intended, and - as I said in my original post - I DO have some sympathy for your position.  Nobody likes to feel that they're not appreciated, and it certainly looks like you're being wound up (intentionally or otherwise) by your current employers.  If it's really as bad as you suggest (and you don't think it's likely that things will ever change), I would strongly advise you to move on and stop wasting your time and energies there.

In terms of job hunting, I would further suggest that you avoid agencies if at all possible (they tend to work on strict criteria provided by their client rather than for the applicant, so if their client states that they need someone with a Diploma, you won't get a look in - however good you are - unless you hold a Diploma unfortunately).

I would advise therefore that you target employers who advertise their vacancies themselves rather than via agencies.  If you feel you match their requirements, tailor your CV accordingly and point out that you're currently studying for Level 6.  You might have to persevere and send out a few applications (it's a tough world at the moment unfortunately), but I can pretty much guarantee that someone will at least give you an interview, and it's up to you to convince them at that time.

Stick with it and don't give up (but while you're still with your present employer, use your time wisely to gain experience rather than going into work frustrated every day and becoming more and more demoralised - your time will come).

Good luck

 Elfin

Edited by user 06 October 2017 11:54:40(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling error

I went from:

Health and Safety Advisor to,

HSEQ Co-Ordinator to,

HSEQ Assitant to,

Health and Safety Manager to,

Health and Safety Consltant to,

Health, Safety, Environmental and Building Services Manager to,

Safety, Health and Environmental Manager.

I really wouldn't get to hung up on job titles and neither will recruiters. Its your CV and you that gets the job whatever you called in your Job Role. They can call me whatever they like as long as they pay me for it.

I think more companies are following the lead of HR departments and calling their staff either H&S Business Advisors, or H&S Business Partners...maybe that could be a suggesion to put to your boss so it doesn't appear to be threatening...all the while of course working out how to replace him in his job, lol

I can relate to this topic as I was in the same boat. I was a QHSE Assistant, paid as an assistant and doing much much more work than an assistant. Furthermore, I already had 2 master's degrees, one in engineering and one in HSE mgt.

However, I decided to suck it up and make the most out of it instead. It was really a change of mind for me. I decided that I will learn as much as I can and then I will move on within 1 year. And so I did...

And guess what?! The experience and knowledge I got from that role provided me the opportunity to be within one of the best and well known companies in the world! It took tons of work and a little bit of luck, but I am here now.

So my advice would be to work as hard as you can and be rewarded with your next role. If you are unhappy, then just decide that you will move on. Finish your degree, get all that you can and move on. There are plenty of employers out there looking for dedicated and commited people like you and not the persons who say: that is not included in my job description. You will excel, not them.

Good luck!

Edited by user 01 November 2017 09:45:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Its hard not to agree with the common sense advice posted; we all have to start somewhere, and possibly having a larger role than is represented of a job title is better than the other way around,, growing expertise in a function builds competence,, continued study assists with further development, and all of us at some point have been or are in the process of professional development. I once worked as an administrator in a role and used my time to gain an MSc. I've had a successful career thereafter, gaining CMIOSH on route and am still developing.

I think the most useful advice I could give is to stick with your study plan whilst continuing to develop in your role, whether that remains wih your current employer lies with you to decide

Also note there are many management roles which are denoted as advisor, and there are professionals aplenty asked to perform roles above their payscale; so I don't think your position is unique.

Keep at it and go for the level 6; get the education then figure out what you can do with it; your cv will stand out better in any regard if you can say your working to GradIOSH, and that should possibly be a challenge you set for yourself. thereafter build on your experiences and grow ino the role you wish to be in,, make the job what you want it to be and create the challenges you need for your career progression, your role title will not limit you to the extent you may believe at present; but not developing competencies and skills will

Set yourself some realistic development targets annd work your development plan into your existing workload; you've already mentioned OHSAS 18001, so possibly using the revision to ISO45001 as a vehicle to further develop your skill set could be a timely way of making your skill set current and desirable to future employers

As with the above comments, but you are quite lucky to be in work and getting qualifications at the same time. Competetion for HS Jobs is very tough right now. Look at it as on the job training and when you feel the time is right move on.

Ive been in that situation in my earlier years and just looked at it as good on the job training &  will get you noticed when the time comes when you are job hunting by potential employers. Maybe you should try and get your chartereship to IOSH aswell if you have the chance in doing so.

The old adage it is always better to get a job when your are in  a job is very true.

With what you have done it allows you to start a conversation up with any new employees at interview stage & then build from there.

john.

Originally Posted by: RayRapp

 I suggest bumping up your prevous job title to 'manager' or something to avoid a similar situation - a white lie. 

There is danger in this - it is a lie that would be exposed on receiving a reference from that employer, and new employers tend to take against the appearance of dishonesty.