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Roundtuit  
#41 Posted : 23 November 2017 21:09:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

That's one trouble with dual identities, Robin. Dual responsibilities.

Roundtuit  
#42 Posted : 23 November 2017 21:09:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

That's one trouble with dual identities, Robin. Dual responsibilities.

Merv  
#43 Posted : 24 November 2017 16:21:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Merv

I have on my office wall, a bit cobwebbed now, a photo of a worker standing on the very top of a stepladder spray washing the front door of No. 10 Downing street. I don't know who took it, but to whom should they have reported it ?

A Kurdziel  
#44 Posted : 24 November 2017 16:50:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

There is no legal duty on an H&S professional to intervene or report any H&S issues that they spot outside of work. If anything goes wrong there is no legal liability on you in either criminal or civil law; if you think about how anybody would even know that you are an H&S professional if an incident was to occur just by looking at you, unless you were to start flashing your IOSH membership card!

Conversely just because you are a H&S professional not give you the right to intervene and start giving orders to people who are not part of your chain of command so to speak. They are perfectly entitled to tell to go away; after all you might not be fully aware of what is going and (shock horror) you could actually be wrong.

Anybody can report an incident but it is often difficulty to contact a responsible person. The HSE are not an emergency service and do not respond immediately to phone calls etc. Usually they just record the report and then decide where they need to respond in their own good time.

Ian Bell2  
#45 Posted : 24 November 2017 18:49:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

This discussion is a year old.

Bigmac1  
#46 Posted : 26 November 2017 12:25:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Originally Posted by: Hsquared14 Go to Quoted Post

Crumbs, maybe I look at this a bit simplistically - I intervene when there is immediate danger to me or someone else,  eg I stopped a demolition worker "bombing" roofing tiles into a skip on a busy city centre footpath then rang the HSE, I intervened to stop a young man (under 18) falling from the roof of small building because his boss had sent him up on the roof using a stepladder 4ft too short and sent the supervisor off to get a longer stepladder I contacted the Local Authority on that one because it was a shop.   I probably do, somthing like that a couple of times per year, I don't think of it as being a moral duty or as part of my persona as a "health and safety" person of 40yrs standing.  I'd like to think that anyone who saw a situation that could lead to someone getting hurt would do something about it, but I suppose that my experience means I'm a bit more aware than most.

Bravo a man after my own heart.

To those who would walk by, how the hell can you. You may have chose the wrong career or is it just a job to you and not a vocation??

Roundtuit  
#47 Posted : 27 November 2017 10:00:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

It is incorrect to judge anyone else based upon your own personal moral compass and life experience.

Some will intervene whilst others will not - a recent example from the local press involved a young parent asking a contractor to stop burning plastic construction waste generating black plumes of toxic smoke outside their house with the result the young family were besieged in their property by six contractor vehicles and anxiously awaiting police attendance.

"anyone who saw a situation that could lead to someone getting hurt would do something about it", so:

- how many drivers did you stop using their hand held mobile?

- how many drivers parked on school markings did you speak to?

Both situations that could lead to someone getting hurt, observable on a daily basis that you have likely walked (or driven) by.

Roundtuit  
#48 Posted : 27 November 2017 10:00:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

It is incorrect to judge anyone else based upon your own personal moral compass and life experience.

Some will intervene whilst others will not - a recent example from the local press involved a young parent asking a contractor to stop burning plastic construction waste generating black plumes of toxic smoke outside their house with the result the young family were besieged in their property by six contractor vehicles and anxiously awaiting police attendance.

"anyone who saw a situation that could lead to someone getting hurt would do something about it", so:

- how many drivers did you stop using their hand held mobile?

- how many drivers parked on school markings did you speak to?

Both situations that could lead to someone getting hurt, observable on a daily basis that you have likely walked (or driven) by.

swebster  
#49 Posted : 27 November 2017 10:57:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
swebster

I often think this.... as previous posts have answered the legal side; I am approaching  on the moral side!

As other have said, it depends on the circumstances. I was working from home last year and the house opposite me (Housing Association owned) were having roof work done by a contractor, no cat ladders, no PPE, generally lobbing stuff around and acting in a  dangerous and unsafe manner. I took a couple of photos (just in case!) and rang the HA to ask if they had any workers in the area. They said they had so I explained my concern and spoke to their H&S manager (who to be fair I did know having worked for another fairly local HA myself previously we had met at conferences etc.). They were pleased I had taken the trouble to call them. I did then see a short while later someone from the HA come out and have a general walk about the road and they spoke to the guys doing the work who then got their ladders off of the van and put them up!

I approached it from the point of view that when I was in an H&S role at an HA I would have wanted to know if any contractors we had employed, (and indeed our own staff), were working unsafely. I also had visions that if they had fallen off of the roof and the HSE came round to see if anyone had seen anything I would have felt very awkward saying yes I saw them acting dangerously and I had ignored it!

On the other hand, in a totally public area where I had no idea who was responsible etc. then it would be a slightly different scenario as I would not know who to necessarily speak to. If I felt it was appropriate,  I might make a passing comment - as I did once on holiday when someone was cutting granite with no eye protection or barriers on a public road and shards of stone were flying everywhere, I just said something along the lines of ‘that's a bit risky hope it doesn't get in your eyes, I think I'll wear my hard hat next time I pass you so I don't get hit by the stone’.... he laughed and said it was OK as he was Cornish??!! That said, when I passed later, he had got some safety glasses on and had put a few barriers up so pedestrians had to cross the road so I think he might have reflected on my comment....

A Kurdziel  
#50 Posted : 27 November 2017 11:35:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

   The original question was very specifically about legal issues not the moral argument.

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